# Kilroy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404 "2006-10-22T03:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/21 "2006-10-22T16:03:12Z")
[QUOTE=KlondikeGeoff] However, **only** those words appeared. It was an **entirely different** thing where the little guy looking over the fence was drawn. He was not Kilroy, but SMOE. Usually he appeared alone, but sometimes “SMOE” was written underneath. I don’t know what the hell that stood for. It’s probably far too late to separate the two now, alas. Anyhoo, I’m 79. [/QUOTE] [From here](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mkilroy.html): > [@](#): > > The cartoon part of the graffito has a different origin. According to Dave Wilton, it is originally British, named Mr Chad, and apparently predates Kilroy by a few years. It commonly appeared with the phrase “Wot, no \_\_\_\_?” underneath, with the blank filled in by whatever was in short supply in Britain at the time–cigarettes, Spam, etc. The Oxford English Dictionary lists Chad’s origin as “obscure” but it may have been created by British cartoonist George Edward Chatterton. > > Sometime during the war, Chad and Kilroy met and merged, the American phrase appearing under the British drawing. > > The combined logo acquired momentum, appearing wherever servicemen travelled, and quickly infected the civilian population. The mania peaked during the war, lingered into the 50s, and then pretty much died out, the joke forgotten as memories of World War faded. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/22 "2006-10-22T18:31:57Z")
Just for the hell of it I checked the SSDI and found only 3 James J. Kilroys, one born 1912, one 1915, both cards issued in Mass., and the third born 1920 w/ his card issued in N.J., so the UL stays alive for now. > **[Ancestry® | Family Tree, Genealogy & Family History Records](https://www.ancestry.com)** > > Ancestry® helps you understand your genealogy. A family tree takes you back generations—the world's largest collection of online family history records makes it easy to trace your lineage. Any Dopers have access to background info. to see if any of the three ever worked in a shipyard during that era? ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/23 "2006-10-22T19:18:23Z")
I’ve seen the picture before. My Dad used to draw it. But I don’t recognise “Kilroy was here.” ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/24 "2006-10-22T19:26:20Z")
I always thought the Starbucks headquarters logo was a play on Kilroy [http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20010228/226starbuckstop.jpg](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20010228/226starbuckstop.jpg) but maybe I am reading something into it 🙂 But I am 47 and have known about Kilroy since I was 10 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/25 "2006-10-22T19:30:39Z")
I found this (just the one line): > [@](#): > > November 24, 1962 in History > James J Kilroy, tank inspector (Kilroy was here), dies at 60 And [this](http://www.killroy.com/history.htm): > [@](#): > > “Now my father was the original Kilroy, and he could prove it…” “My mother died in 1991. Her name was Margaret too, and she was the one who convinced my father a trolly would make a wonderful gift for the family. She said it could be parked in the yard, and the children could use it as a playhouse.” Margaret, who still lives in Halifax, said her father died in 1962. And [this](http://dan.moneeek.com/content/ref/etymology/k1etym.htm): > [@](#): > > Kilroy - U.S. military graffito character dates to 1945 and is said to be either Sgt. Francis J. Kilroy Jr., U.S. Army Air Transport, whose friend or friends began writing his name everywhere as a prank; or war materiéls inspector James J. Kilroy of Quincy, Mass., who wrote “Kilroy was here” on everything he checked. And from [findagrave](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=10932011): > [@](#): > > Birth: Sep. 26, 1902 > Death: Nov. 24, 1962 > > American Folk Figure. He was the originator of the ubiquitous World War II expression and doodle “Kilroy was here.” The “Kilroy was here” phrase seemed to appear everywhere during World War II. > > \ > > James Kilroy was also a Boston City Councillor and state representative. He died in Halifax, Massachusetts. However, that site claims that Kilroy used the Chad cartoon; which other sources say was a British invention. But it appears that James Kilroy did exist, and died in 1962. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/26 "2006-10-22T19:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] I found [this](http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1962/november_24_1962_126191.html) (just the one line): [/QUOTE] Fixing the first link. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/27 "2006-10-22T19:44:07Z")
I ran into the phrase in some sort of cartoon, too. Can’t remember if it was in Bugs Bunny or in a print cartoon that I saw it first. I remember my dad disparaging the fact that they got the drawing wrong and explaining both the history and the proper way to draw it. It didn’t end there, either. He had to research it later and get back to me with cites in print. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/28 "2006-10-22T19:45:25Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] I found this (just the one line): And [this](http://www.killroy.com/history.htm): And [this](http://dan.moneeek.com/content/ref/etymology/k1etym.htm): And from [findagrave](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=10932011): However, that site claims that Kilroy used the Chad cartoon; which other sources say was a British invention. But it appears that James Kilroy did exist, and died in 1962. [/QUOTE] **The game’s afoot!** I know, I know, it’s just that I always wanted to use that line. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/29 "2006-10-22T20:02:35Z")
I first saw the Chad drawing associated with Kilroy in the late 1970s. I really don’t recall any wartime photos of “Kilroy was here” associated with the Chad drawing, although I will not insist that they never appeared together. (Chad always looked like Segar’s/(“Ceegar’s”) [Alice](http://www.mezcotoyz.com/store/inventory/Popeye/pop-003-006.jpg) the [Goon](http://www.nordre.dk/billeder/AliceTheGoon.jpg), to me. I have no idea what influence Segar and Alice might have had on Chad (or the reverse). The drawing is sufficiently simple that more than one artist could have come up with quite similar designs.) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/30 "2006-10-22T20:28:38Z")
The guy who died in 1962 was indeed the claimant to the origin. But, did he really do it? The American Transit Association conducted a contest in 1946, awarding the prize of a streetcar to whomever could come up with the best explanation of the origin of “Kilroy.” Mr. James J. Kilroy won that prize in November of 1946(not 1948 as the website [http://www.killroy.com/history.htmoffered](http://www.killroy.com/history.htmoffered) by Johnny L.A. said). Even if this guy’s story is true, that he inscribed his name inside of parts, how can we say for sure that _this_ was what inspired the mania? I remember drawing the “Chad” cartoon in school in the 1950’s. And, being an American, that was Kilroy to me, at that time. ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/31 "2006-10-22T20:45:08Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] I became aware of it in 1983 with the release of the Styx album “Kilroy was Here”. That is also where I became aware of the phrase “Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto”. [/QUOTE] Same here. Were it not for that album and song, I’m not at all certain that I would have any real awareness of the “Kilroy” phenomenon. I’m 33. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/32 "2006-10-23T13:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=hopesperson] Same here. Were it not for that album and song, I’m not at all certain that I would have any real awareness of the “Kilroy” phenomenon. I’m 33. [/QUOTE] I think I have a vague recollection from old Bugs Bunny cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/33 "2006-10-23T17:53:03Z")
I’m 48, and I can’t remember not knowing. But I don’t know where I learned about it. Probably Mad Magazine. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/34 "2006-10-23T19:06:44Z")
There was a real Kilroy!!!??? Colour me gobsmacked (and no I don’t no what colour that is). I hope he got arrested for peering over all those fences. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/35 "2006-10-23T19:19:10Z")
I heard of it long ago, probably from Looney Tunes. I seem to remember asking my father about it and getting the story. I am 39. My father was born in 1927. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/36 "2006-10-23T19:50:46Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] I became aware of it in 1983 with the release of the Styx album “Kilroy was Here”. That is also where I became aware of the phrase “Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto”. [/QUOTE] Seconded. I was living in Yorkshire at the time, and whenever my friends or I drew it we’d write “Kilroy woz 'ere.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/37 "2006-10-23T20:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=DJ Motorbike] I’m 30 and I believe I first came across “Kilroy was Here” from having read MAD Magazine as a child. [/QUOTE] I’m 47, but I also recall the graffito’s appearance in the background of a panel in a _MAD_ TV or movie parody. I was in high school at the time, and a classmate showed me a Kilroy drawing he had done either a few days before or a few days after I read the particular issue of _MAD_. It was thus the combination of these two sightings that implanted Kilroy into my permanent memory, although I had likely seen the cartoon on a couple of previous occasions without really wondering about its relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/38 "2006-10-23T22:39:26Z")
[QUOTE=WotNot] I’m a 44-year-old Englishman, and I’ve known of “Kilroy was here” and the Chad character since I was a small child. It wasn’t until some time later, in my late teens probably, that I first saw them together – and then from an American source (it may well have been Bugs Bunny, or something similar). I think that in the UK, Chad (if remembered at all) is still mostly associated with “Wot? No …?” [/QUOTE] I’m a 49-year-old Englishman and Wot WotNot said, though I didn’t see ‘Kilroy was here’ and Chad together until I was in my late 20’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/39 "2006-10-23T23:17:45Z")
Charles Osgood, of CBS News “I’ll see you on the radio” fame, wrote, in 2001, the book, _Kilroy Was Here-The Best American Humor from World War II_. A very good read. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404/40 "2006-10-23T23:50:50Z")
[QUOTE=Me] Seconded. I was living in Yorkshire at the time, and whenever my friends or I drew it we’d write “Kilroy woz 'ere.” 🙂 [/QUOTE] :smack: I forgot: I’m 35. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy/377404.md?page=3)