# Kim and Kanye on Vogue - why the furor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432 "2014-03-24T12:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/41 "2014-03-24T19:15:35Z")
I didn’t realize SMG read that magazine. After all: > [@](#): > > **Buffy:** I know Faith isn’t going to be on the cover of _Sanity Fair_, but… I understand she also reads the _Everyone Thinks We’re Insane-Os Home Journal_. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/42 "2014-03-24T19:16:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I wouldn’t know, I listened to like one and a half of his songs. You got further than I did. I tried to listen to one of his recent ones, got to the verse in which he rhymed “reputation” with itself four times in a row, and turned it off. Kanye song: _Blah blah blah blah reputation Blah blah blah blah reputation Blah blah blah blah reputation Blah blah blah blah reputation_ I was like, “Seriously, THIS is the rap genius people have been talking about?!” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/43 "2014-03-24T19:22:58Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > My understanding is that those who like his music feel it demonstrates a level of self-awareness and discernment regarding his fame and behavior that is not evident if one only goes by interviews. That’s probably a good way to put it. It seems like when West has some time to think about what he’s saying (lyrics), he can really be quite aware (and sometimes he isn’t, but it seems to be more aware than a lot of other musical artists). And he does tend to rap about racism and social issues quite a bit - I mean who would have guessed the guy would have written a song about conflict diamonds (“Diamonds from Sierra Leone”)? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/44 "2014-03-24T20:23:10Z")
> [@FlyingDragonFan](#): > > You got further than I did. I tried to listen to one of his recent ones, got to the verse in which he rhymed “reputation” with itself four times in a row, and turned it off. > > Kanye song: > _Blah blah blah blah reputation > Blah blah blah blah reputation > Blah blah blah blah reputation > Blah blah blah blah reputation_ > > I was like, “Seriously, THIS is the rap genius people have been talking about?!” Really? That’s a bizarre complaint. Identity rhymes are what turned you off to Kanye? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/45 "2014-03-24T20:28:26Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > _Sometimes people write novels and they just be so wordy and so self-absorbed. I am not a fan of books. I would never want a book’s autograph. I am a proud non-reader of books._ > > .~ Kanye West > > . What was that again that you were saying about Kanye West not being a retard, **Brickbacon**? Here’s another couple doozies: > [@](#): > > “When I think of competition it’s like I try to create against the past. I think about Michelangelo and Picasso, you know, the pyramids.” – Slate, August 2010 > [@](#): > > “I’m doing pretty good as far as geniuses go … I’m like a machine. I’m a robot. You cannot offend a robot … I’m going down as a legend, whether or not you like me or not. I am the new Jim Morrison. I am the new Kurt Cobain … The Bible had 20, 30, 40, 50 characters in it. You don’t think that I would be one of the characters of today’s modern Bible?” > — radio interview with Tim Westwood, 2008 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/46 "2014-03-24T20:30:39Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I guess you’ve forgotten the 2009 VMA’s, **brickbacon?** When Taylor Swift was giving her acceptance speech, Kanye ran on the stage, grabbed the microphone, and said Beyonce should’ve gotten it? > > What a prince. :rolleyes: I’ve commemorated that moment by having Swift’s “We Are Never Ever Ever Getting Back Together” play back-to-back with Kanye’s “Gold Digger” on one of my mix CD’s. I like to imagine that they’re singing to each other. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/47 "2014-03-24T20:33:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What was that again that you were saying about Kanye West not being a retard, **Brickbacon**? > > Here’s another doozy: Personally, I think he’s just good at the buzz game. The guy does not strike me as an idiot at all. A professional troll, maybe. It’s hard to tell, but he’s musically a genius. – ETA: Or at least, a superb craftsman. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/48 "2014-03-24T20:48:10Z")
I am not familiar with Vogue magazine, but I assume people (mostly readers of the magazine?) are upset simply because Kimye hasn’t “earned” the cover. ---
**Author:** ![abderian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@abderian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abderian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/49 "2014-03-24T20:58:11Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > But speaking as objectively as you can about something subjective like musical taste, you are just flat out wrong. You can find people who hate the Beatles or Garth Brooks or Prince or Jay-Z, but most fair people who have to admit they are extremely talented and gifted performers. To deny West’s talent is like saying any of the above. You can personally dislike his music, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t great. I wholeheartedly disagree. I see little more than high school talent in Kanye West. I understand that you are clearly a fan, but Kanye West is not at all comparable to the Beatles or Prince; his “talent” is more akin to that of [Tiny Tim](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_PLWqnfFgU). Musical genius? Hardly. And she is certainly the epitome of the vapidity and rampant consumerism of our time. Still, I don’t understand the public uproar – the Kimye cover is actually kind of laughable. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/50 "2014-03-24T21:05:54Z")
> [@abderian](#): > > I wholeheartedly disagree. I see little more than high school talent in Kanye West. > > I understand that you are clearly a fan, but Kanye West is not at all comparable to the Beatles or Prince; his “talent” is more akin to that of [Tiny Tim](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_PLWqnfFgU). Musical genius? Hardly. You don’t have to take our word for it. Look up any modern music critic about the level of his work, from NPR to Rolling Stone, to Pitchfork, to Time. His latest album, _Yeezus_. Time Magazine? #1 of 2013. Rolling Stone? #2. Pitchfork? #2. NPR? They don’t seem to have an exact ranking, but it made their top 50. NME? #9. Spin? #1. Paste? #16. That’s a pretty good critical consensus, and that was one of his more polarizing albums. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/51 "2014-03-24T21:09:00Z")
Yeah, I definitely didn’t care for what I heard of Yeezus, but I do think to say that he is little more than high school talent is unfair. Clearly he brings something more to the table than your average junior glee clubette. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/52 "2014-03-24T21:10:12Z")
In case anybody cares, I’m a 46yo white male and I agree with **pulykamell** - Kanye is seriously talented. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/53 "2014-03-24T21:35:08Z")
This 33 year old white male agrees as well. Actually wasn’t that into rap at all until I started listen to Kanye. The guy makes fantastic music. I mean “My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy” is considered one of the greatest albums of all time. ---
**Author:** ![abderian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@abderian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abderian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/54 "2014-03-24T21:50:20Z")
Well, all the Kanye fans can come out of the woodwork now, but that won’t make him any more of a “musical genius”. I mean, surely I could rally the Tiny Tim fans if I posed the right thread title! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/55 "2014-03-24T22:29:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > This 33 year old white male :headslap: Don’t post while tired, kids. Should read 33 year old Asian male. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/56 "2014-03-24T23:37:09Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In case anybody cares, I’m a 46yo white male and I agree with **pulykamell** - Kanye is seriously talented. Just for the record, I’m not saying he’s not talented. I’m saying he’s some kind of rare combination of musical talent and drooling moron in public. Like some sort of idiot savant for the rap game maybe. But people don’t like him because his public persona is that of someone who says staggeringly dumb and self-centered things regularly. Maybe he’s not as dumb as he seems, and he’s just oblivious to how outrageously dumb some of his statements come across. I can’t believe that someone who’s meticulously crafting a public persona would come out and say that “books be so wordy” and that he’s a proud non-reader. That’s the statement of an idiot or someone who doesn’t have a filter or a clue, at best. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/57 "2014-03-24T23:49:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Just for the record, I’m not saying he’s not talented. I’m saying he’s some kind of rare combination of musical talent and drooling moron in public. That’s what I can’t tell about him. Is his public persona completely unrestrained id and ego? Or is he a cynical, professional publicity troll? Or is it somewhere in between? I just prefer to ignore him except for his music. My gut leans towards the “unfiltered” and “not-well-thought-out” side of things, but I can’t discount the possibility of Supertroll, as I know personalities who purposefully act much dumber than they are for attention. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/58 "2014-03-25T00:28:45Z")
> [@StayseaDee](#): > > Despite what you think of his “amazing talent”, I don’t agree. Period. And I am pretty open to listening to a wide variety of artists and find appreciation for those that I don’t necessarily like. But Kanye? I couldn’t find one thing that I appreciate besides the quiet at the end of the track. You can have your opinion, but it would be wholly derided by the vast majority of people who evaluate musical talent for a living, most true music fans, and most fair people. Honestly, this is not really in question. It’s like saying Bruce Springsteen isn’t talented. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > They didn’t say THE biggest. The quote was ONE OF the biggest. He certainly qualifies for the finals, at any rate. He’s not even in the running. Get some perspective. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It sort of does. CrazyCatLady wasn’t giving him a DSM diagnosis, she was using it as an insult. Stating objectively false things is not something to be proud of. The original quote was about how “even compared to mentally disabled people, he is retarded”. I think that is hard to defend given his accomplishments. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Where do you think the people that DO believe fucking babies will cure AIDS get that idea? From “retards” like Kayne, who are all just stating their ill-formed opinions. The only difference is the degree of ignorance, not the ignorance itself. The degree matters a lot in this case. > [@Miller](#): > > Since when has being a successful pop star been a reliable indicator of intellectual rigor? When you produce for yourself and others, become that successful in multiple arenas, and do it over the period of time he has done it, you have to be pretty intelligent. > [@abderian](#): > > I wholeheartedly disagree. I see little more than high school talent in Kanye West. And no one serious about music would ever give weight to your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/59 "2014-03-25T00:39:09Z")
Beethoven was a musical genius. If we are living in a world where Kayne and Ludwig are in the same overlap of that Venn diagram then humanity has failed as a species and we should detonate all our nuclear weapons in a nice pattern to ensure our scourge is purged from the Earth - or at least immediately sterilise ourselves by any means necessary. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432/60 "2014-03-25T00:42:52Z")
Everybody knows that _talented_ rappers are known for their humility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-and-kanye-on-vogue-why-the-furor/684432.md?page=4)