# Kim Davis asks Supreme Court to overturn gay marriage ruling of 2015
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 11, 2025, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943 "2025-08-11T21:51:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 10
### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/181 "2025-08-19T22:02:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> And i assumed it was a typo for “gays”.
I had the same assumption actually.
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> Via 23 & me I found out I’m very Scottish and therefore can now say my people are oppressed.
Ancestry told me I’m very English so please accept my apology on behalf of my people.
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/182 "2025-08-19T22:28:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Where is that?
Pretty sure he’s from South Africa.
---
### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/183 "2025-08-19T22:38:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> Pretty sure he’s from South Africa.
From his past posts, he was born in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and raised there, but is South African/British by descent. He has also called South African and Zimbabwe “his countries”.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/184 "2025-08-19T22:40:21Z")
> [@doreen](#):
>
> I’m wondering exactly how you are defining “doctrine” so that abortion and birth control are never religious issues.
I didn’t say they are never religious issues: I did say that “in the US, churches have worked hard to make these religious issues, successfully.” What I mean is that if you take Christianity as a whole, or Judaism as a whole, diachronically and cross-culturally, these are non-issues.
Since religion is a part of culture, it’s not really feasible to separate them completely, but American religion takes the form and focus it does because of American culture, not because of something inherent to Christianity or any other religion. Sure, you can look to the writings of Paul and find some justification our cultural attitudes, but there have been multiple cultures practising Christianity that just didn’t care as much about those. Pretty much all Christian cultures are sexist to a degree, and so are the ancient texts in which the religion is rooted, but beyond that most of the American Religious Right’s issues are America-specific.
---
### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/185 "2025-08-19T22:41:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The Vatican explicitly has no position on circumcision. In fact, the New Testament directly says that circumcision or uncircumcision is irrelevant.
Yeah, the early Church made the wise decision that if it had any hope of getting adult gentiles to convert in significant numbers, requiring them to undergo circumcision was probably not a good idea. And if they weren’t going to make the converts get circumcised, it wasn’t logical to make their children undergo it either.
---
### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/186 "2025-08-19T22:51:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> but when a Christian-based business like Hobby Lobby tells me that the health insurance _I pay for_ refuses to pay for Mrs. Cad’s birth control pills or completely legal (in my state) abortion
This statement is a bit misleading. In most cases where employers provide health insurance in the U.S., they are paying for a large percentage of that insurance and the employee pays for a much smaller percentage. This is the type of employer provided insurance at issue in the case. Hobby Lobby was simply choosing an insurance plan for its employees that did not cover those things. A hobby lobby employee was free to purchase his/her own independent or supplemental insurance with whatever coverage they chose.
---
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/187 "2025-08-19T23:21:53Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> Hobby Lobby was simply choosing an insurance plan for its employees that did not cover those things
…in violation of the law at the time, until the religious nuts on SCOTUS intervened.
---
### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/188 "2025-08-19T23:24:35Z")
Actually all things considered it probably was. 🤔
I’m two-finger typing on a tablet with autocorrect and mistakes are plentiful. But when called out on this, that explanation didn’t jump out at me and so I figured my Neanderthal brain had made an appearance and reflexively appologized.
---
### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/189 "2025-08-20T01:54:55Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> A hobby lobby employee was free to purchase his/her own independent or supplemental insurance with whatever coverage they chose.
And that’s no doubt widely available.
I’m sorry, that’s just bullshit. It’s extremely unfortunate that health insurance is marketed to employers, rather than to the end users. And this is just a blatant example of what goes wrong as a result.
---
### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/190 "2025-08-20T02:11:51Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> Hobby Lobby was simply choosing an insurance plan for its employees that did not cover those things.
And I’m sure not for religious reasons, right?
---
### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/191 "2025-08-20T02:47:37Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> This statement is a bit misleading. In most cases where employers provide health insurance in the U.S., they are paying for a large percentage of that insurance and the employee pays for a much smaller percentage. This is the type of employer provided insurance at issue in the case. Hobby Lobby was simply choosing an insurance plan for its employees that did not cover those things. A hobby lobby employee was free to purchase his/her own independent or supplemental insurance with whatever coverage they chose.
Not misleading in the slightest. Note that the SCOTUS ruling in favor of Hobby Lobby in this case specifically ruled (emphasis mine):
> [@](#):
>
> **Primary Holding**
>
> The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) permits a closely held for-profit corporation to deny its employees the health coverage of contraceptives to which the employees are otherwise entitled by the federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (ACA), **based on the religious objections of the corporation’s owners.**
In other words, Hobby Lobby didn’t “just happen” to choose to offer a health insurance plan which didn’t cover reproductive health: they chose such a plan because their ownership believed that certain forms of contraception violated their own religious beliefs, and sought access to the same legal carve-out to the law (entitled the _ **Religious** _ Freedom Restoration Act) which religious non-profits receive.
> **[Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc., 573 U.S. 682 (2014)](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/573/682/)**
>
> Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc.: The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) permits a closely held for-profit corporation to deny its employees the health coverage of contraceptives to which the employees are otherwise entitled by the federal...
---
### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/192 "2025-08-20T03:31:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> In other words, Hobby Lobby didn’t “just happen” to choose to offer a health insurance plan which didn’t cover reproductive health: they chose such a plan because their ownership believed that certain forms of contraception violated their own religious beliefs, and sought access to the same legal carve-out to the law (entitled the _ **Religious** _ Freedom Restoration Act) which religious non-profits receive.
Yeah, it’s like saying you’re not a racist and don’t hate Black people, you just choose to go to places where Black people are not welcome, but you’re not the one who made those places like that.
---
### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/193 "2025-08-20T03:37:27Z")
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> Yeah, it’s like saying you’re not a racist and don’t hate Black people, you just choose to go to places where Black people are not welcome, but you’re not the one who made those places like that.
Yup.
[ ](https://preview.redd.it/h9ucw5nx69q91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5ffb6ac04b0adc7623004d972bc53ad6d9d0c3e7)
---
### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/194 "2025-08-20T03:49:38Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> In other words, Hobby Lobby didn’t “just happen” to choose to offer a health insurance plan which didn’t cover reproductive health: they chose such a plan because their ownership believed that certain forms of contraception violated their own religious beliefs, and sought access to the same legal carve-out to the law (entitled the _ **Religious** _ Freedom Restoration Act) which religious non-profits receive.
But note, there don’t seem to be many health insurance plans that don’t cover blood transfusions or antibiotics despite both of those being deeply held religious beliefs. I wonder why… It’s almost like RFRA is really about interfering with women getting reproductive health care.
I’m sure the blood _trans_fusion oversite will be corrected soon.
---
### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/195 "2025-08-20T05:11:49Z")
> [@Nightaudit](#):
>
> The English just can’t leave other people alone can they
In _this_ case, the people they were fighting totally fucking deserved it. Colonizers fighting _worse_ colonizers is not a bad thing in my book. Go English!
---
### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/196 "2025-08-20T12:02:59Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> In other words, Hobby Lobby didn’t “just happen” to choose to offer a health insurance plan which didn’t cover reproductive health: they chose such a plan because their ownership believed that certain forms of contraception violated their own religious beliefs, and sought access to the same legal carve-out to the law (entitled the _ **Religious** _ Freedom Restoration Act) which religious non-profits receive.
No doubt. And I can’t understand why an organization who so vehemently opposes abortion would deny people the very thing that is most effective at reducing unwanted pregnancies, and in turn abortion. An organization that truly believes abortion is the killing of a human life should be practically handing out contraceptives, not making them more difficult to obtain.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/197 "2025-08-20T13:34:45Z")
Because people who are against abortion did not really reach that opinion through concern for babies or children. What they want is to see women punished for having recreational sex. Birth control does the opposite of that.
---
### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/198 "2025-08-20T14:41:53Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> And I can’t understand why an organization who so vehemently opposes abortion would deny people the very thing that is most effective at reducing unwanted pregnancies, and in turn abortion.
First, their public argument about this is typically that some contraceptives function by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus, and this essentially acting as abortions.
But, more broadly, as @Dr.Drake says, they also believe that premarital/extramarital sex is sinful, and ready access to contraception removes the fear of unwanted/unplanned pregnancies that historically helped to discourage unmarried people from having sex. They believe that this has been a factor in the decline of “traditional families” (because they feel that the ability to have sex should be reserved for married couples), and a general increase in promiscuity.
They also believe that God commands humans to “be fruitful and multiply,” and contraceptives discourage people from having lots of kids.
Finally, the part that they probably don’t say out loud is that ready access to contraception empowers women, and gives them control over their own bodies, which they also frequently oppose.
---
### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/199 "2025-08-20T15:01:56Z")
So basically women should not have pre-marital or out-of-marriage sex, but that is perfectly OK for men … as long as it’s not gay sex.
---
### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943/200 "2025-08-20T15:53:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> So basically women should not have pre-marital or out-of-marriage sex, but that is perfectly OK for men
Well, maybe not “perfectly OK” – they will argue that extramarital sex is a sin, regardless of gender. But, it’s a sin that man of them are more likely to overlook and tacitly accept for a man than it is for a woman.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943.md?page=9)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-davis-asks-supreme-court-to-overturn-gay-marriage-ruling-of-2015/1021943.md?page=11)