# Kim Jong-chul = "unmanly"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879 "2011-12-20T20:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/1 "2011-12-20T20:00:50Z")
What’s the deal with Kim Jong-il’s middle son, Kim Jong-chul? I’ve seen reports referring to him as “unmanly” and like a “little girl”. Is that code for “gay”? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/2 "2011-12-20T20:02:46Z")
He also writes [bad poetry](http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/14471274948/kim-jong-ils-feminine-son-once-wrote-a-poem-about). How can you lead The Best Korea when your shit don’t even rhyme? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/3 "2011-12-20T20:08:52Z")
Keep in mind that someone can be effeminate without being gay… so let’s just say he’s effeminate and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/4 "2011-12-21T05:25:52Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > He also writes [bad poetry](http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/14471274948/kim-jong-ils-feminine-son-once-wrote-a-poem-about). How can you lead The Best Korea when your shit don’t even rhyme? [QUOTE=from above-cited article] And perhaps one of the reasons Kim Jong Chol might have been too much of a girly-man to run North Korea might have to do with a poem he once wrote under the pseudonym Chol Pak about how he wishes the world could live in peace and get rid of nukes and how no one should have to starve [/quote] Peacenik article, protesting nukes and protesting starvation? In North Korea, bad poetry indeed! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/5 "2011-12-21T07:57:15Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Keep in mind that someone can be effeminate without being gay… so let’s just say he’s effeminate and leave it at that. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![\_cc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e19b73/32.png) [@\_cc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_cc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/6 "2011-12-21T08:29:24Z")
According to [Brian Reynolds Myers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reynolds_Myers), Kim Jong-Il was specifically intended to be a motherly figure ([video of book talk](http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/292562-1)) to the North Korean people, not a “manly” father figure. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/7 "2011-12-21T14:47:02Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > What’s the deal with Kim Jong-il’s middle son, Kim Jong-chul? I’ve seen reports referring to him as “unmanly” and like a “little girl”. Is that code for “gay”? I think most of the “reports” come from a single source, the Kim’s ex-sushi chef who defected to Japan. So “unmanly” means whatever that one guy thinks it means, and it may be he just didn’t like the middle Kim brother and so decided to slander him as being effete. Is there any other source for the personality of the middle Kim? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/8 "2011-12-21T15:08:50Z")
It could also be that he was mildly retarded and unfit for military training, too child-like and self-indulgent. Of course, we’ll never know until the North is free. I have trouble imagining any homosexual relationships in such a situation - presumably any _ **hint** _ of someone in that relationship with a ruling family member, and the ex-friend of that Kim would be found floating in the river. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-chul-unmanly/606879/9 "2011-12-21T15:36:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I think most of the “reports” come from a single source, the Kim’s ex-sushi chef who defected to Japan. So “unmanly” means whatever that one guy thinks it means, and it may be he just didn’t like the middle Kim brother and so decided to slander him as being effete. > > Is there any other source for the personality of the middle Kim? Good point. The “little girl” quote is definitely from the chef’s book. I don’t know where the description of “unmanly” came from. I’ve only seen it unsourced, like here: [Who is Kim Jong-un? An Insight Into North Korea's Likely New Leader (VIDEO)](http://www.christianpost.com/news/who-is-kim-jong-un-an-insight-into-north-koreas-likely-new-leader-65149/) I noticed that, according to Wikipedia, there’s also a South Korean poet called Kim Jong-chul.