# Kim Jong-il is a fucking loser **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530 "2004-04-28T18:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/21 "2004-04-29T00:15:15Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > Or like he’s just made a speech threatening a return to terrorism if he doesn’t get exactly what he wants… Oh, he has, oh well I’m sure our leaders know what they’re doing… Yeah I caught that “I hope we won’t have to go back to blowing people up” remark, I thought that was very, very odd. (or actually not so odd, the guy is fucking crazy) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/22 "2004-04-29T02:17:34Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I read the link below awhile back, it’s a very fascinating, highly detailed account of a guy who went to NK. > > [http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe](http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe) Very interesting link. Even more so when, as I read through it, I realized that one of the guys in the pictures is a dude that I used to work with when I lived in Seoul! I didn’t even know he was still in Korea… Man, I wish I could have gone on that tour! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/23 "2004-04-29T13:27:48Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Very interesting link. Even more so when, as I read through it, I realized that one of the guys in the pictures is a dude that I used to work with when I lived in Seoul! I didn’t even know he was still in Korea… > > Man, I wish I could have gone on that tour! Freaky, a small world indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/24 "2004-04-29T17:32:19Z")
This guy’s got it nailed: it’s like the entire country is some run down themeland park dedicated to the Kims. A starving, backward Disneyland. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/25 "2004-04-29T17:45:22Z")
Good lord, you’re all so narrow-minded. This man is a living deity, for goodness’ sake. Check out the [genuine](http://fim.ondragonswing.com/archives/001661.html) story of his birth: > [@](#): > > When the Dear Leader was born in a humble log cabin on Korea’s sacred Mount Paekdu in 1942, a bright star and a double rainbow appeared in the sky and a swallow descended from heaven to herald the birth of a “general who will rule all the world.” > > A soldier in the army commanded by the Dear Leader’s father, the Great Leader, saw the star and the rainbow and rejoiced, carving a message into a tree: “Oh, Korea, I announce the birth of the Star of Paekdu.” He has special powers! He got a hole-in-one the first time he played golf! And the most amazing ability he has is that he manages to be a tubby fella in a country that’s starving to death. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/26 "2004-04-29T18:03:29Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I read the link below awhile back, it’s a very fascinating, highly detailed account of a guy who went to NK. > > [http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe](http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe) Great link, Geophage. It reminds me of _Inside Intourist_, an essay Robert Heinlein wrote about visiting the Soviet Union in the mid-1970s. (The best way to find it now would be to buy it as part of the “Expanded Universe” omnibus book. It’s full of his other nonfiction writing, which is generally very interesting still today.) I know how long those regimes can last, even when it appears they’re running on lies and bald coercion alone. But as much as I dislike North Korea, I share one hope with them: I hope Korea is unified, under a democratic government based in Seoul. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/27 "2004-04-29T18:06:18Z")
Of course, I got the era for _Inside Intourist_ wrong. Heinlein and his wife visited the USSR in 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/28 "2004-04-29T18:22:08Z")
Quote from **counsel wolf’s** link: > [@](#): > > North Koreans who are reliant for news on their country’s official media would have been in the dark on Friday about the rail collision near the Chinese border. > > The main evening TV news bulletin broadcast at 8 pm failed to make any reference at all to the disaster. What kind of psychotic leader would deny his people the brutal truth of tragic and horrible events. [Oh…Wait…](http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/opinion/20040427223513.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/29 "2004-04-29T18:35:27Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Quote from **counsel wolf’s** link: > > What kind of psychotic leader would deny his people the brutal truth of tragic and horrible events. > > [Oh…Wait…](http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/opinion/20040427223513.shtml) Well if it’s any consolation I think GW is a loser as well. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/30 "2004-04-29T21:14:30Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Quote from **counsel wolf’s** link: > > What kind of psychotic leader would deny his people the brutal truth of tragic and horrible events. > > [Oh…Wait…](http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/opinion/20040427223513.shtml) Don’t let the fact that it’s a DoD policy that predates Dubya’s presidency get in the way of your Kim Jong-Il/Bush comparison. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/31 "2004-04-29T21:25:42Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > Don’t let the fact that it’s a DoD policy that predates Dubya’s presidency get in the way of your Kim Jong-Il/Bush comparison. :rolleyes: [From here:](http://www.intellnet.org/news/2003/11/03/21342-1.html) > [@](#): > > The rule has been in effect since 1991 and was reaffirmed in March, he said. > > However in recent years the rule was relaxed and television journalists in Germany were able to cover honor guard ceremonies, including the transfer of coffins of sailors killed in an attack on the U.S.S. Cole and the war in Afghanistan. > > “During ‘Enduring Freedom’ the D.O.D. did make some exceptions in the policy,” said Major Mike Young, public affairs chief for the 86th airlift wing in Ramstein. > > “Since ‘Iraqi Freedom’ started the D.O.D. said we are going to enforce the policy. For the past year we haven’t done any (media coverage) on remains.” > > The corpses of most of the 250 American servicemen killed in Iraq have passed through Ramstein since the war began. In some cases after the seven-hour flight from Iraq they are transferred to another plane for an eight-hour flight to Dover. > > “We were a bit surprised by the sudden ban (on covering coffins),” said Andy Eckardt, a producer based in Mainz for NBC who covered about five such transfers there in recent years. “But we follow the regulations. What can I do? It’s the military. They own the base.” And I think you may have taken my post too seriously. On the scale of psychotic, egotistical tyrants, Bush is way behind Kim Jong-il. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/32 "2004-04-30T02:23:45Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > That reason could have something to do with all the lobbying UK and US oil companies have been doing - Oh, and him “giving up” WMDs he didn’t have anyway. You’re suggesting that Libya doesn’t have any WMD? I know it’s a hijack, but cite? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/33 "2004-04-30T12:41:20Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > You’re suggesting that Libya doesn’t have any WMD? I know it’s a hijack, but cite? Fine with me, I’d like to see that cite as well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/34 "2004-04-30T12:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > When the Dear Leader was born in a humble log cabin on Korea’s sacred Mount Paekdu in 1942, a bright star and a double rainbow appeared in the sky and a swallow descended from heaven to herald the birth of a “general who will rule all the world.” Interesting since he was actually born in Russia. Kim is definitely a fucking loser, but I think the story is likely just propaganda. I hope so, anyway. The guy himself isn’t worth shit, so it’s distressing to contemplate the idea of people dying while trying to save his picture. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/35 "2004-04-30T14:58:45Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I read the link below awhile back, it’s a very fascinating, highly detailed account of a guy who went to NK. > > [http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe](http://www.1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip1.htm~mainframe) I just spent the last hour and a half reading this trip report. Absolute fascinating. Thanks for the link, **World Eater** ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/36 "2004-04-30T15:25:12Z")
> [@DeadlyAccurate](#): > > I just spent the last hour and a half reading this trip report. Absolute fascinating. Thanks for the link, **World Eater** No problemo. 🙂 I’m curious as to what Dopers think we should do about this guy. Any armchair general / diplomats in the hiz-zouse? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/37 "2004-04-30T16:30:05Z")
[Here’s a before and after pic of Ryongchon](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/ryongchon-imagery_comp01.htm). That’s a hell of a lot of portraits of “glorious leader” that needed to be saved. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![htns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@htns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/htns)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/38 "2004-04-30T16:50:43Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Worse, to my mind at least, is [N. Korea stopping relief supplies from S. Korea.](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/8529492.htm?1c) There are thousands wounded and dying without medical treatment available, and they’re refusing relief supplies because they come from the south? Criminally crazy. A note that registration is required to view that site would have been in order. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/39 "2004-04-30T16:57:51Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > You’re suggesting that Libya doesn’t have any WMD? I know it’s a hijack, but cite? Ooo, only just noticed this gauntlet thrown into my path… Right, well, after an (admittedly short) bit of Googleing I can’t find much in the way of WMDs themselves, but lots about WMD _programs_ (where have I heard that before?) Are you suggesting they did have WMDs? Even the UK and US Gov press releases are very careful to talk about WMD _programs_- never WMDs themselves - but equally careful to give the impression it was actual, physical WMDs being given up. I humbly suggest you’ve been spun. [Fed of American Scientists](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/libya/) > [@](#): > > At one time some observers classified Libya among the most dangerous countries from the standpoint of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons. But in recent years concerns about Libyan nuclear ambitions have faded, though apprehensions about Libyan chemical weapons efforts remained very much alive. Libya was no position to obtain access to nuclear weapons in the foreseeable future, given the extremely limited domestic technical base of the country. > [@](#): > > Libya’s biological warfare program is believed to have remained in the early research and development phase. Progress was slow due in part to an inadequate scientific and technical base. Though Libya may have been able to produce small quantities of usable agent, it was unlikely to transition from laboratory work to production of militarily significant quantities until well after the year 2000. Libya acceded to the BWC in 1982. (The use of the year 2000 suggests oldish report being quoted here - can’t find any more up to date stuff on BW stuff for Libya) > [@](#): > > Libya retained a small inventory of chemical weapons, as well as the a CW agent production capability. Prior to closing its Rabta plant in 1990, Libya succeeded in producing up to 100 tons of blister and nerve agent at the site. Although the site was re-opened in 1995, ostensibly as a pharmaceutical plant, the facility was still believed capable of producing CW agents. CW-related activities at the Tarhuna site are believed to have been suspended. Libya had not ratified the CWC but declared in December 2003 that it would do so. Ok, a madman with a WMD program (even a crap one) comes under the heading of “Bad Things” - and if that 100 tons of nasties was still hanging around and got destroyed in the deal, I’ll concede on a technicality But from:- [White House Statement on Libya](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/libya/wh022604.html) > [@](#): > > While more remains to be done, Libya’s actions have been serious, credible, and consistent with Colonel Qadhafi’s public declaration that Libya seeks to play a role in “building a new world free from WMD and from all forms of terrorism.” Maybe I’m reading between the lines of Diplomateese too much, but “more remains to be done” suggests cooperation isn’t quite as total as we’re led to believe - and given Col Q’s threats on returning to terrorism, “building a new world free from WMD and from all forms of terrorism.” sounds like utter bollocks to me I’m guessing (and yes, it’s just a guess) that he had a small CW production ability - and that he’s probably still got it He has lost the ability to deliver CWs longish range by missile - but I don’t know how long it would take to get that back if (when?) he changes his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-il-is-a-fucking-loser/242530/40 "2004-04-30T17:03:40Z")
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