# Kim Jong Trump fills the swamp **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 3, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285 "2017-03-03T13:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/21 "2017-03-11T15:09:29Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Mr. Trump has also instituted a five-year lobbying ban for people who leave his administration from lobbying, and an indefinite ban for lobbying the United States on behalf of foreign governments.🆒 Fun fact. Do you know who else did that? A guy named Barack Obama. And do you know what happened when he did? Lobbyists just changed their job title. It’s annoying and it sucks but there’s really no way to stop people from being lobbyists. Trump can try, and that’s good and all, but please don’t act like he had an original idea or has scored a victory on this. Oh, and, the Trump team [knew](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-consulting-firm/index.html) about Flynn’s lobbying for Turkey before he was put on the national security council. > [@ckalli1998](#): > > Bullshit. Over 235,000 jobs created in February. Those jobs are from the economy he inherited. He didn’t do anything to create them, but if he wants to take credit for them (and he does because he’s a liar), then whatever. So let’s compare the last couple of Februarys. In Feb 2015 Obama created 238,000 jobs. In Feb 2016 Obama created 237,000 jobs. In Feb 2017 Trump takes credit for 235,000 jobs. Yawn. One could easily say Trump has continued the downward slide in February job numbers but that wouldn’t really be any more honest that bragging about his Feb numbers, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/22 "2017-03-11T15:11:02Z")
…saying “there is evidence” is not evidence. IOW, “Cite?” ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/23 "2017-03-11T15:15:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Since it was never implemented, how can you judge it’s effectiveness? > > As has been pointed out to you several times, the use of natural gas is a far bigger threat to coal than any regulations. > > Regulations that improve the safety and health of coal miners. You actually object to that? > Coal is a dying industry. The time to ease it out and start retraining the younger miners for a different job/career is now. Maybe older miners should be “pensioned off”, paid by the government. > > Waiting for the industry to collapse before doing anything will be far more expensive. Unless you follow the Republican plan of blame the workers and turn your back. These regulations that you speak of would not “improve the safety and health of coal miners”, as you absurdly put it, nor would it have any real environmental benefit. There are dozens of clean air environmental regulations and safety measures already on the books to do just that. The “coal-stream” restriction rule would have “Coal is a dying industry”. That is the type of pessimistic, defeatist liberal Democrat mindset that has succeeded in turning West Virginia into a solidly red state–you’re not going to be able to save the coal industry if with an attitude like that (and you clearly don’t want to), considering you’re not even really trying. And do you think the government is just sitting on money that it can pay to the tens of thousands of coal workers who would be out of a job? Have you heard of how high our debt is, or are you going to deny that too? With the new pro-coal policies Trump puts in place, the industry will make a comeback, as other industries have done in the past. It’s not unheard of for an industry to bounce back, which is unfathomable to you, apparently. State agencies can enact rules to improve water quality, there was no need for the federal government to pass such a rule, like the coal-stream rule, which really did nothing to make us safer. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/24 "2017-03-11T15:15:28Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Nope. The economy clearly slumped under Obama, had the slowest growth since the damn 1940s, not to mention he never presided over a single year of 3% GDP growth. There’s no evidence Obama had anything to do with those jobs created. There is evidence, however, that Obamacare killed thousands of jobs because businessmen laid off people since they couldn’t afford to give their employees insurance because of the costs. > > There is plenty of evidence that Trump’s economic message and policies implemented so far have plenty do with it, as seen by the Trump rally on the stock market and Dow Jones highs, the many business owners who are much more comfortable with the economic environment he’s created, etc etc. > > To top it off, there were also 40% less illegal border crossings at the Southern Border in the month of February than in January, no doubt a result of Trump’s fierce pro-American, anti-illegal alien rhetoric. Or are you seriously going to say that the pro-amnesty Obama is responsible for less illegals coming here, which would be absurd seeing as how he relentlessly–and at times unconstitutionally–tried to shove amnesty legislation through? Nice try. The stock market responds to optimism as much as actual economic pressures. Not a good short term measure. Economic policies do not work in a mater of days or a few weeks. [Obama’s economic record](http://politicsthatwork.com/economic-record-president/obama) Doesn’t look like a slump to me. Remember he inherited the start of a recession. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/25 "2017-03-11T15:17:38Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Fun fact. Do you know who else did that? A guy named Barack Obama. And do you know what happened when he did? Lobbyists just changed their job title. > > It’s annoying and it sucks but there’s really no way to stop people from being lobbyists. Trump can try, and that’s good and all, but please don’t act like he had an original idea or has scored a victory on this. > > Oh, and, the Trump team [knew](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/politics/michael-flynn-donald-trump-consulting-firm/index.html) about Flynn’s lobbying for Turkey before he was put on the national security council. > > Those jobs are from the economy he inherited. He didn’t do anything to create them, but if he wants to take credit for them (and he does because he’s a liar), then whatever. So let’s compare the last couple of Februarys. In Feb 2015 Obama created 238,000 jobs. In Feb 2016 Obama created 237,000 jobs. In Feb 2017 Trump takes credit for 235,000 jobs. Yawn. > > One could easily say Trump has continued the downward slide in February job numbers but that wouldn’t really be any more honest that bragging about his Feb numbers, would it? Not impressive at all, those jobs reports are from six and seven years into Obama’s term, this one is only two months into Trump’s term. You’re right, it wouldn’t be honest to say Trump continued a downward slide, as the jobs number exceeded the expectations of experts:[http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/235-000-new-jobs-in-february-235916](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/235-000-new-jobs-in-february-235916), [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-10/u-s-jobs-wages-show-solid-gains-in-trump-s-first-full-month](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-10/u-s-jobs-wages-show-solid-gains-in-trump-s-first-full-month) ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/26 "2017-03-11T15:22:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The stock market responds to optimism as much as actual economic pressures. Not a good short term measure. > Economic policies do not work in a mater of days or a few weeks. > > [Obama’s economic record](http://politicsthatwork.com/economic-record-president/obama) > Doesn’t look like a slump to me. Remember he inherited the start of a recession. When Bush was in office, he too inherited a recession (from the [dot.com](http://dot.com) bubble burst from Clinton), and nevertheless was able to give the nation a 3% GDP growth during his eight years. In his 2004 re-election year, his GDP growth expanded 3.47% from 2001, and voters clearly appreciated it, as he won re-election. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/27 "2017-03-11T15:27:09Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > When Bush was in office, he too inherited a recession (from the [dot.com](http://dot.com) bubble burst from Clinton), and nevertheless was able to give the nation a 3% GDP growth during his eight years. In his 2004 re-election year, his GDP growth expanded 3.47% from 2001, and voters clearly appreciated it, as he won re-election. [Not the same.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-housing-bubble-tanked-the-economy-and-the-tech-bubble-didnt/) > [@](#): > > In 2000, the dot-com bubble burst, destroying $6.2 trillion in household wealth over the next two years. > > Five years later, the housing market crashed, and from 2007 to 2009, the value of real estate owned by U.S. households fell by nearly the same amount — $6 trillion.1 > > Despite seeing similar nominal dollar losses, the housing crash led to the Great Recession, while the dot-com crash led to a mild recession. Part of this difference can be seen in consumer spending. **The housing crash killed retail spending, which collapsed 8 percent from 2007 to 2009, one of the largest two-year drops in recorded American history.2 The bursting of the tech bubble, on the other hand, had almost no effect at all; retail spending from 2000 to 2002 actually increased by 5 percent.** > > What explains these different outcomes? In our forthcoming book, “House of Debt,” \*\*we argue that it was the distribution of losses that made the housing crash so much more severe than the dot-com crash. \*\*The sharp decline in home prices starting in 2007 concentrated losses on people with the least capacity to bear them, disproportionately affecting poor homeowners who then stopped spending. What about the tech crash? In 2001, stocks were held almost exclusively by the rich. The tech crash concentrated losses on the rich, but the rich had almost no debt and didn’t need to cut back their spending. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/28 "2017-03-11T15:34:30Z")
Here’s another fun fact: The prevailing assumption in the American left that the coal industry is doomed no matter how many pro-coal policies Trump institutes is not, in fact, true, as in-depth investigative report from Fox News journalist Johnny Giles demonstrates: [Coal mining begins seeing revival as Trump gives industry hope](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/01/coal-mining-begins-seeing-revival-as-trump-gives-industry-hope.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/29 "2017-03-11T15:35:01Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Not impressive at all, those jobs reports are from six and seven years into Obama’s term, this one is only two months into Trump’s term. > > You’re right, it wouldn’t be honest to say Trump continued a downward slide, as the jobs number exceeded the expectations of experts:[http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/235-000-new-jobs-in-february-235916](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/235-000-new-jobs-in-february-235916), [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-10/u-s-jobs-wages-show-solid-gains-in-trump-s-first-full-month) You do realize that both links credit the weather more than Trump for the job numbers and the first one warns that Trump shouldn’t take credit at all? That’s the thing about mid-winter job reports. Last month, 154,000 more people than average were able to work because the weather was mild. Hey, I’ll give Trump credit for not fucking the economy up yet, I kinda assumed we’d all be living in the woods eating squirrels by now, but it’s naive to make it a huge victory. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/30 "2017-03-11T15:36:39Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Coal… pro-coal… coal-stream… coal industry… coal companies and miners… > [@ckalli1998](#): > > coal industry… coal workers… coal mines… > [@ckalli1998](#): > > coal miners… coal-stream… Coal … coal industry… coal… pro-coal… coal-stream… I look at the topic of this thread – “draining the swamp” — and then look at these posts, and I’m not sure if our new friend thinks “swamp” means “[coal slurry pond.](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/11/us/west-virginia-slurry-spill/)” What’s even more confusing is that Trump is talking about draining whatever it is; but the quoted poster wants to fill them up. It’s all so confusing… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/31 "2017-03-11T15:39:03Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > It is in this case, Mr. Flynn didn’t choose to resign of his own volition, Mr. Trump asked him to resign, and it’s not like he could say no. The other choice would be to be unceremoniously sacked by Trump with no resignation letter. Of course he could say no. He didn’t tho, and so he wasn’t fired; he resigned. They are not the same thing, no matter how many times you try and say that they are. Trump had an opportunity to clean up his own mess, and he didn’t take it. And yes, it was his mess: he’s in charge and he didn’t fully vet Michael Flynn. Trump failed at least twice regarding this situation. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/32 "2017-03-11T15:55:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Of course he could say no. He didn’t tho, and so he wasn’t fired; he resigned. They are not the same thing, no matter how many times you try and say that they are. Trump had an opportunity to clean up his own mess, and he didn’t take it. And yes, it was his mess: he’s in charge and he didn’t fully vet Michael Flynn. Trump failed at least twice regarding this situation. Actually, according to news reports, some Trump campaign officials knew about Flynn’s lobbying for Turkey, the half a million bucks he got from it, and that he might have to register as a foreign agent, but declined to inform Trump on it. ([http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN16H2OR](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN16H2OR)) I’m fully willing to say that was bad judgement on the part of the Trump team; they knew through their vetting about his work for Turkey, but didn’t inform their boss? Pretty ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/33 "2017-03-11T16:17:10Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Actually, according to news reports, some Trump campaign officials knew about Flynn’s lobbying for Turkey, the half a million bucks he got from it, and that he might have to register as a foreign agent, but declined to inform Trump on it. ([http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN16H2OR](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN16H2OR)) > > I’m fully willing to say that was bad judgement on the part of the Trump team; they knew through their vetting about his work for Turkey, but didn’t inform their boss? Pretty ridiculous. So Trump also failed at hiring competent people to vet people for him; seems on par with his general flair for failure. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/34 "2017-03-11T16:23:41Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I’m fully willing to say that was bad judgement on the part of the Trump team; they knew through their vetting about his work for Turkey, but didn’t inform their boss? Pretty ridiculous. Q: If I applied trend analysis to “bad judgement” and “The Trump Team”, do you think that I would (or could) find a correlation? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/35 "2017-03-11T17:44:06Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I’m fully willing to say that was bad judgement on the part of the Trump team; they knew through their vetting about his work for Turkey, but didn’t inform their boss? Pretty ridiculous. Yeah, the idea that nobody told Trump is, indeed, pretty ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/36 "2017-03-11T19:47:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, the idea that nobody told Trump is, indeed, pretty ridiculous. Yep, a man as megalomaniacal as Trump is guaranteed to have to know everything about the tiniest decisions. He knew. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/37 "2017-03-11T20:23:27Z")
See; now [this guy was fired. > [@](#): > > An outspoken Manhattan federal prosecutor known for crusading against public corruption says he was fired after refusing to resign. > > Preet Bharara (buh-RAH’-ruh) announced in a tweet Saturday afternoon that he was fired. > > He said: “I did not resign. Moments ago I was fired.” ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_FEDERAL\_PROSECUTORS\_RESIGNATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-11-15-01-14](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FEDERAL_PROSECUTORS_RESIGNATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-11-15-01-14)) ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/38 "2017-03-11T20:24:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > See; now [this guy was fired.](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FEDERAL_PROSECUTORS_RESIGNATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-11-15-01-14) Very routine for new Presidents to clean house of U.S. Attorney holdovers from previous administrations. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/39 "2017-03-11T20:39:23Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Very routine for new Presidents to clean house of U.S. Attorney holdovers from previous administrations. Yes, absolutely normal. But, the point I think Bo was making was that he was, in fact, fired - so Trump knows how to do that. If Flynn was, as you have suggested, a bad hire (and they happen) - why would Trump defend him at first and then give him the opportunity to resign? I mean, “You’re fired” is practically (if not actually) his trademarked phrase. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285/40 "2017-03-11T20:40:31Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Yes, absolutely normal. But, the point I think Bo was making was that he was, in fact, fired - so Trump knows how to do that. > > If Flynn was, as you have suggested, a bad hire (and they happen) - why would Trump defend him at first and then give him the opportunity to resign? I mean, “You’re fired” is practically (if not actually) his trademarked phrase. We know Trump likes loyalty, Mr. Flynn was one of his biggest boosters and supporters during the campaign, at his rallies, and at the Republican Convention. It probably really hurt him very first that he might have to fire Flynn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-trump-fills-the-swamp/781285.md?page=3)