# Kim Jong Un Does it Again: Kills His Defense Chief **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 13, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905 "2015-05-13T02:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/41 "2015-05-14T02:11:55Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > That explains the SLBM launch claim. North Korea plus saber rattling frequently means one of two things are going on - internal power struggles or it’s shaping up to be a bad food year. It doesn’t have to be _or_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/42 "2015-05-14T02:29:12Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It doesn’t have to be _or_. 🙂 Christ, I should not find that to be amusing. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/43 "2015-05-14T02:30:11Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It doesn’t have to be _or_. Very true. 😉 I should not find it amusing either. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/44 "2015-05-14T02:44:27Z")
I wish I had stock in North Korean coffee futures. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/45 "2015-05-14T08:00:43Z")
I had this FNG in my squad and one night early in his deployment, we had perimeter security duty for the Firebase. Well, for part of the perimeter. So I assigned the FNG to a hole with an experienced Pvt and told him “If you hear something out there, do NOT let loose with the M-60. First thing, you wake up Pvt. If you do have to shoot, use the M-79, THEN wake up Pvt.” So of course after Pvt fell asleep on duty, FNG heard a sound in the bushes and let loose with half a belt of the M-60 before Pvt woke up and slapped his hand away from the trigger. And all hell broke loose with various people shouting “Cease Fire!” and “Check Fire!” Me too. So, there’s me, the Pappa Sierra, the 2nd LT and the Company Commander with the 1st Sgt at the Observation post trying to figure out what happened and what to do. Eventually, the no longer sleepy Pvt, the PS, and I went out to check out the bushes. And it seemed it was a water buffalo that had gotten FNG’s attention. Well, a former-water buffalo, if you know what I mean. So we reported back it was a water bo. And this wasn’t good. You see, there weren’t any free range water buffalos in our area. They were some farmer’s property. And pretty valuable too. Not to mention you can’t just leave dead livestock outside the fence cause they start to stink and attract flies. After the Cap’n, 1st Sgt, and LT discussed it for a while, I had a revelation and told them I thought it was a “VC sapper water buffalo trying to infiltrate our perimeter and we should interrogate it”. They looked at me like I was crazy (if I was smarter, I’d have kept that going and gotten sent home) and the 1st Sgt asked me “How the hell do you interrogate a dead water buffalo?” and I said “I didn’t know, but I bet the Mess Sergeant could figure out how.” _… and there was a pause as the senior personnel exchanged glances …_ Long story short, out of that half belt of 7.62x52 about 11 rounds hit the beast. And the steaks turned out to be very well tenderized. I’ve seen what a single round of .50 BMG can do with a head shot. So, as for the former NK Defense Minister on the wrong end of 6 quad .57s firing until their ammo canisters are empty? I’m thinking something between jelly and a meat paste and bone fragments. Clean up with a shovel and a hose. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/46 "2015-05-14T13:28:44Z")
The general sure got a lot of flak for falling asleep. Maybe he had a drinking problem, and this was Kim’s way of sending him to an AA meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/47 "2015-05-14T14:05:26Z")
Okay, it’s not often the puns send me running out of a thread, holding my head and screaming… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/48 "2015-05-14T14:05:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The general sure got a lot of flak for falling asleep. FTW. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/49 "2015-05-14T14:09:16Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Anti-Aircraft-Artillery? No? > > I wonder were the last words of the defense minister, the same as Breaker Morant, “Shoot straight, you bastards!” 🙂 > > And yeah, although its kind of James-Bondish supervillainy, death by AAA wouldn’t be a bad way to go. It definitely has a certain something. Almost as good as [this XKCD](https://xkcd.com/123/). ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/50 "2015-05-14T14:59:54Z")
If he had his Defense Chief killed with AA guns, what would he use to kill his Minister of Agriculture? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/51 "2015-05-14T15:10:16Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > If he had his Defense Chief killed with AA guns, what would he use to kill his Minister of Agriculture? Probably a good ol’ fashioned tractor pull with the Minister’s legs as the wishbone tow rope. _I think I’m turning North Korean, I think I’m turning North Korean, I really think so…_ ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/52 "2015-05-14T15:12:19Z")
Boy, is he strict! [blazing saddles]“Chewing gum on line, eh? I hope you brought enough for everybody!”[/blazing saddles] ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/53 "2015-05-14T16:47:11Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > …but I bet the Mess Sergeant could figure out how." The “FNG” reference had me smiling, but that part had me laughing out loud. (Now people are looking at me.) 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/54 "2015-05-14T17:52:26Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > If he had his Defense Chief killed with AA guns, what would he use to kill his Minister of Agriculture? > [@lieu](#): > > Probably a good ol’ fashioned tractor pull with the Minister’s legs as the wishbone tow rope. Maybe they’d use oxen. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/55 "2015-05-14T17:58:34Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Maybe they’d use oxen. The’ll have that tractor fixed any time now! ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/56 "2015-05-14T18:04:35Z")
FTR, AA = Anti-Aircraft. AAA = Anti-Aircraft Artillery. All AAA is AA. Not all AA is AAA. Although, a definition of a “gun” is a crew served weapon, so AAA could be an AA gun. But not all AA are guns, some are missiles. Or rockets. I’m not sure if or how they’re defined differently. I think, in one version of definitions, guns (.22 cal to .57 cal) shoot solid metal (sometimes steel jacketed) projectiles and artillery (20mm to 18") shoots projectiles that explode on contact. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/57 "2015-05-14T19:01:32Z")
Turns out the Sov 14.5mm AKA 0.57" does have both inert metal slug and exploding rounds. This wiki [14.5×114mm - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14.5%C3%97114mm) was referenced upthread and has the details. I’d wager it’s the smallest diameter exploding round ever in widespread production / use. In aerial parlance, a “gun” shoots slugs or shot, a “cannon” shoots explosive projectiles. I’m not sure exactly what terminology Army ADA uses. Although for sure inert slugs aren’t much used nowadays either by or against aircraft, at least not in dedicated weapons systems. Back in my day we certainly respected the hazard of simple massed infantry firing their assault rifles straight up. Crossing massed infantry formatiosn with organic ADA was a tough problem. Much below 500 ft. and we had to worry about individual & squad weapons. Much above 100 ft. we had to worry about missiles. And anywhere below about 10,000 we had to worry about AAA, from the 14.5 on up to the 57mm. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/58 "2015-05-14T19:04:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Turns out the Sov 14.5mm AKA 0.57" does have both inert metal slug and exploding rounds. This wiki [14.5 × 114 mm - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14.5%C3%97114mm) was referenced upthread and has the details. > > I’d wager it’s the smallest diameter exploding round ever in widespread production / use. [.50 BMG Raufoss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211) ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/59 "2015-05-14T19:08:18Z")
So, what, did he just have some AA ammo sitting around that was about to go bad and decided to use it up? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905/60 "2015-05-14T19:08:59Z")
Late add: With 23mm being the most dangerous combination of fire volume, accuracy, and lethality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-does-it-again-kills-his-defense-chief/719905.md?page=4)