# Kim Jong Un "In Grave Condition" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 21, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250 "2020-04-21T03:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/21 "2020-04-25T22:01:57Z")
So can we cross the word condition out of the thread title yet? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/22 "2020-04-25T22:10:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So can we cross the word condition out of the thread title yet? I’d say not yet. When we see that older news-lady crying like a maniac on TV while announcing his death, we’ll know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/23 "2020-04-25T22:33:39Z")
I wonder if there’s not a deliberate effort by intel agencies (not necessarily the US) to push to declare him dead even without confirmation. Push the story out, make North Korea respond to it. Because NK refuses to talk, I’d say that there’s a fairly high percent chance that he’s in critical condition even if he’s not dead yet. He could be brain dead or comatose and they might be trying to figure out how power’s going to be distributed. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/24 "2020-04-25T23:01:20Z")
Poor surgeon. You know they’re going to make him suffer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/25 "2020-04-25T23:21:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Poor surgeon. You know they’re going to make him suffer. I don’t know, a bullet to the head is pretty quick… But yeah, I wouldn’t be selling him any life insurance policies. The interesting point is if (IF) he is dead, when it gets announced. Just looked it up and Stalin’s death was announced the day after he died (to borrow from another ruthless dictator) and Daddy Kim Il Sung got his announced about 30 hours after he died (per Wikipedia). Might be working out the power-sharing (or grabbing) details behind the scenes right now. Interesting times. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/26 "2020-04-26T02:25:08Z")
I think he comes back as a zombie and calls himself the Un-dead. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/27 "2020-04-26T02:39:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think he comes back as a zombie and calls himself the Un-dead. Pretty good Bob. Perhaps the surgeon will be declared a hero and will be the next leader. Who knows. That country is fucked up worse that the USA. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/28 "2020-04-26T05:43:28Z")
Will satellite photos detect burial trenches for the failed surgical team? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/29 "2020-04-26T14:43:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think he comes back as a zombie and calls himself the Un-dead. Weekend at Kim’s. [Yes I know his last name is Kim, not 1st…] ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/30 "2020-04-26T15:14:41Z")
A good friend of mine is a North Korea analyst for the BBC (speaks on TV about N Korea etc and I know to be a good guy) and he’s retweeted this, which seems to put everything in context: [https://twitter.com/chadocl/status/1253945322448932865](https://twitter.com/chadocl/status/1253945322448932865) > [@](#): > > A lot of people are asking about the increasing rumors re: KJU’s health. > > Well, we are not going to report on them until something crystal clear starts to line up. > > Here’s why we won’t report until then: > [@](#): > > Right now, there are broadly two cannons of rumor circulating: > > A) KJU underwent heart surgery last week, it didn’t go well, and he’s either dead or close to death; > > B) KJU underwent some kind of surgery & is recuperating well outside of Pyongyang, is in control but unavailable. > [@](#): > > After two days of hearing sources reference second-hand knowledge of one theory or the other, we started to realize there is a major echo chamber effect. > > I.e. the two sets of rumors are all evolving variations on prior material > [@](#): > > There are credible people sharing info related to both theories. > > What is uncertain is where it’s all originally coming from. > [@](#): > > And there are things which make little sense. > > On the rumors emanating from Chinese social media, re: Chinese medical teams providing support… > > Would NK really invite Chinese surgeons to goto Pyongyang for this kind of support? > > If so, why are these rumors not being censored? > [@](#): > > And on indicators Kim Jong Un is recovering from something, not seriously ill, on his feet, and somewhere near Wonsan… > > Is foreign intel on a subject of total secrecy in NK - KJU’s health - that good? > > (Consider no outsider knew of Kim Jong Il’s death for two whole days.) > [@](#): > > For now there are too many varying indicators. > > Not enough details line up one way or the other. > > So we won’t know which of these two rumors are credible until state media reveals something. > > Plus, it still remains possible both are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/31 "2020-04-26T20:27:33Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Rumors keep escalating that he has either died, is brain dead, or something very similar. > > Could it be actually true? > > I both hope so and hope that things don’t get worse. “Yay, the king is dead! The new king can’t be nearly as bad! What’s his name again?” “Um, some young kid. The name is…Joffrey.” Careful what you wish for. Regime transitions in despotic countries often come with a lot of bloodshed. We can only hope it’s internal bloodshed. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/32 "2020-04-26T20:36:12Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > A good friend of mine is a North Korea analyst for the BBC (speaks on TV about N Korea etc and I know to be a good guy) and he’s retweeted this, which seems to put everything in context: > > … > > > [@](#): > > > > And there are things which make little sense. > > > > On the rumors emanating from Chinese social media, re: Chinese medical teams providing support… > > > > Would NK really invite Chinese surgeons to goto Pyongyang for this kind of support? > > > > If so, why are these rumors not being censored? > > … I appreciate why the BBC won’t report until there are reliable sources. But why do these things “make little sense”? If Kim is in a coma, why wouldn’t it make sense for them to seek expert medical assistance from China? And why is it so implausible that word of a medical team being sent from China could get out through China? China is not North Korea, they aren’t going to send a surgeon’s spouse to labor camp if (say) they violate instructions and let word slip to a cousin in Hong Kong. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/33 "2020-04-26T20:37:37Z")
South Korea said he’s alive and well. [North Korea leader Kim Jong Un is 'alive and well' South Korea says, amid mounting speculation | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/asia/kim-jong-un-north-korea-health-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/34 "2020-04-26T21:12:04Z")
Wait a week. Or two. No sign of Kimbo? Then he’s as cold as a kipper onna cracker. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/35 "2020-04-27T11:49:03Z")
N. Korea said he wrote a letter which proves he is OK. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/36 "2020-04-27T12:38:04Z")
They wouldn’t hide Kim from public just because he’s dead; if he looks weak and unsteady on his feet, they’d hide him. There could be many several reasons why there’s silence coming out of North Korea, but clearly, it’s not ‘situational normal.’ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/37 "2020-04-27T12:40:59Z")
What we have now is Scrodinger’s despot. Until the box opens we’ll never know. Curious about the train. My guess they moved a seriously ill Kim for therapeutic reasons. Or they moved a corpse for mortuary treatment. Or they tied shaky handed doctors to the tracks before moving the train. Or they moved the successor to a secure location while any rivals are exterminated. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/38 "2020-04-27T12:57:10Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > N. Korea said he wrote a letter which proves he is OK. I’m reserving judgment until I learn which letter he wrote. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/39 "2020-04-27T13:08:19Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > N. Korea said he wrote a letter which proves he is OK. And it was a _perfect_ letter. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250/40 "2020-04-27T13:58:57Z")
I don’t see what would the benefit would be to the North Koreans to hide his death, if dead he is. Surely they don’t have more reverence for him than they had for his father and grandfather, and their deaths weren’t hidden (at least not for long). And they’ll have to put out word of who’s the person in charge for foreign governments to deal with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-jong-un-in-grave-condition/852250.md?page=3)