# Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Books--do they get any less boring? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763 "2008-11-21T01:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/21 "2008-11-21T18:42:02Z")
If you hated _Red Mars_, you’ll hate the other books even more. The only reason to read _Green Mars_ is for the part where the space elevator gets blown up. I can’t think of any reason to read _Blue Mars_. I only read the whole trilogy because I was on a business trip and didn’t have anything else to read. ETA: I didn’t like _The Years of Rice and Salt_, either. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/22 "2008-11-21T18:52:47Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > _Rice_ and Salt. > > Try his _Capitol_ trilogy, which starts with _Sixty Days of Rain_, instead. I enjoyed them a lot more. How does that one rule go again? 😛 It’s _[Forty Signs of Rain](http://www.amazon.com/Forty-Signs-Rain-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585800/)_, then _[Fifty Degrees Below](http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Degrees-Below-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585819)_, then _[Sixty Days and Counting](http://www.amazon.com/Sixty-Days-Counting-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585827/)_. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/23 "2008-11-21T19:02:22Z")
> [@emilyforce](#): > > How does that one rule go again? 😛 > > It’s _[Forty Signs of Rain](http://www.amazon.com/Forty-Signs-Rain-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585800/)_, then _[Fifty Degrees Below](http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Degrees-Below-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585819)_, then _[Sixty Days and Counting](http://www.amazon.com/Sixty-Days-Counting-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585827/)_. I slogged thru all 3 of those. I can’t say I recommend them, though. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/24 "2008-11-21T19:44:04Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I slogged thru all 3 of those. > > I can’t say I recommend them, though. Yeah, ditto. The first one seemed promising, but didn’t play out well in the others. Actually, my favorite of his is _[A Short, Sharp Shock](http://www.amazon.com/Short-Sharp-Shock-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553574612/)_. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/25 "2008-11-21T20:08:03Z")
I did make it through Red, and got half way through the first chapter of Green and found nearly every other unread book I own calls to me more. It’s kind of sad that the section about the trip to Mars was a lot more exciting than what happened when they finally got there. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/26 "2008-11-21T21:20:52Z")
I could only barely get through _Red Mars_, and a few pages into _Green Mars_ I just gave it up and reread a Peter Straub book. My wife loves the Mars trilogy, though. Funny thing is I’m quite fond of _The Years of Rice and Salt_, and I tolerated _Antarctica_. I just found the Mars books ponderous. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/27 "2008-11-22T03:12:58Z")
They’re strange books in some respects - KSR is an exceptional writer (particularly short stories) and the Mars trilogy should have been his Magnum Opus, but they just don’t work in the manner he intended. The human side of the books is a mess - dull, unbelievable characters. V disappointing from a writer of his calibre. I liked the technical, science-orientated terraforming stuff, but I’ve read so little hard SF that I wouldn’t be a very good critic of this part of the books. Red Mars was the best by far I thought, Green Mars was very weak. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/28 "2008-11-22T03:53:21Z")
If KSR’s long books are not your cup of tea, try **Escape from Kathmandu**. It’s a collection of short stories set in Nepal. Each story is short, the whole collection is short, and it’s a lot of fun. Each story plays with a central Asian myth in an amusing way. KSR is a mountaineer by avocation. I think it brings a lot to his fiction, particularly in this collection.[sup]1[/sup] A friend of mine who had been to Kathmandu saw me reading the book, and said “Kathmandu is not a place I’d want to escape from.” I said, “It is if you’re a Yeti!” 😃 [sup]1[/sup]I like that he wrote about the scenery of Mars like a geologist, and not like all the previous physicist/EE/etc. writers did. I appear to be outnumbered in this thread, since I like KSR, but de gustibus non est disputandum. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/29 "2008-11-22T04:02:13Z")
Well, I’ll just step in to counter all this crap-piling that KSR’s Mars Trilogy is one of my favorite sets of Sci-Fi novels. But I agree that if you don’t like Red Mars, you won’t like the rest. For me, they were all great reading. _De gustibus non est disputandum_, I guess. Edit: my favorite novel by KSR however is _Icehenge_. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/30 "2008-11-22T04:57:25Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > It’s basically a romance novel. I don’t read romance novels because I don’t care about imaginary people’s complicated and torturous interpersonal relationships. I don’t care about them even if they happen in the future. On Mars. And I don’t care about complicated political finagling either. I’m bored out of my gourd. Hmm. That sounds way MORE interesting than I thought they would be. Not romance so much as interpersonal wrangling and politics. Anyone care to weigh in on whether a non-sf reader (me!) might like them? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/31 "2008-11-22T05:05:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Hmm. That sounds way MORE interesting than I thought they would be. Not romance so much as interpersonal wrangling and politics. > > Anyone care to weigh in on whether a non-sf reader (me!) might like them? IMHO, no. The interpersonal stuff just blathers on and on, with no real logic behind much of it, and some of the nonsensical views get harped on so much that I think KSR must believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/32 "2008-11-22T05:40:50Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > IMHO, no. The interpersonal stuff just blathers on and on, with no real logic behind much of it, and some of the nonsensical views get harped on so much that I think KSR must believe it. It’s not so much that they get harped on, it’s the fact that everyone who agrees with those rules is handsome, smart, clever, and morally superior while those who disagree are ugly, disagreeable, holocaust-denying, baby rapists. And the wonderfully perfect geniuses stop all the time in the story to tell the reader how much better they are than those wicked late-twentieth century people who dared to have things like industry, money, and freedom of association. Since Robinson never actually explores the consequences of the ludicrous politics and economics he puts in the novel (people just announce that they’re implementing these policies, they never have any impact on society or behavior) you can’t take it as anything other than a personal screed. ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/33 "2008-11-22T12:17:21Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > I like that he wrote about the scenery of Mars like a geologist, and not like all the previous physicist/EE/etc. writers did. I appear to be outnumbered in this thread, since I like KSR, but de gustibus non est disputandum. Semi-Hijack: there is a great short story, which I linked to before, titled [Climbing on Mars](http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/Mars.html) by a mountaineer who did several overwinters in Antarctica, with some great perspective on the mindset of the explorers on the first Mars mission and no unnecessary baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/34 "2008-11-22T13:02:58Z")
> [@emilyforce](#): > > How does that one rule go again? 😛 > > It’s _[Forty Signs of Rain](http://www.amazon.com/Forty-Signs-Rain-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585800/)_, then _[Fifty Degrees Below](http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Degrees-Below-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585819)_, then _[Sixty Days and Counting](http://www.amazon.com/Sixty-Days-Counting-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553585827/)_. Bah, I should have walked the 3 yards to my [Robinson shelf](http://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/2470093939/sizes/l/), or actually, just thought for a moment! I found the Capitol series picked up as it went on; the first one was short and not that great, but 2 was good and I was really looking forward to 3, which was excellent. I almost started the first one again immediately I finished the set because I was sure I’d pick up more the second time through… I have pretty much all his books; favourites include _Escape from Kathmandu_, _Icehenge_ as mentioned above. But what I really like are his short stories. Some wonderful stuff. _Muir on Shasta_, _Rainbow Bridge_, _A History of the 20th C…_, _Making History_. I do find his Mars set a bit of a slog athough I quite liked the novella _Green Mars_ (which isn’t part of the trilogy) about climbing Mons Olympus. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/35 "2008-11-22T16:27:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Hmm. That sounds way MORE interesting than I thought they would be. Not romance so much as interpersonal wrangling and politics. > > Anyone care to weigh in on whether a non-sf reader (me!) might like them? Nah. As **Tuckerfan** said, it isn’t even _good_ interpersonal wrangling and politics. For example, at the beginning, we find out that Maya is really hot, and a total drama queen. Frank and John both have the hots for her. Fast forward 400 pages and a couple of decades–Maya is still really hot and a total drama queen, and Frank and John still have the hots for her. Many valuable pages have been spent describing this phenomenon. In extreme repetitive detail. Redunant detail that repeats and reiterates itself over and over. Furthermore, it is just the same thing again and again. In other words, Robinson makes the same point multiple times in multiple ways. Repeatedly. And just when you think you don’t have to hear anything more about it, he says it again! Guy could have used an editor. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/36 "2008-11-22T16:47:25Z")
Wow, okay. I think I WON’T try this book/series. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763/37 "2008-11-22T17:08:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I did make it through Red, and got half way through the first chapter of Green and found nearly every other unread book I own calls to me more. > > It’s kind of sad that the section about the trip to Mars was a lot more exciting than what happened when they finally got there. This is exactly where I quit. Red Mars was ok I guess but completely forgettable. I tried to give Green Mars a chance but it was just more of the same. I lost interest in the story and characters quickly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kim-stanley-robinsons-mars-books-do-they-get-any-less-boring/473763.md?page=1)