I think that this is the best analogy I’ve heard thus far, and reall sums up the absurdity of the current pricing structure.
The original Rembrandt probably has a resale value of $15,000 while the digital download has a resale value of zero, so I wouldn’t pay that much for the download.
On the other hand, a $20 hardcover book has a resale value of, what, $3? Certainly less than $10. So I’d gladly take a $10 digital download over a $20 hardcover.
I have a Sony PRS-505 and I really like it. No whispernet, so I can’t buy books via wireless, but it’s not a hassle to me to download books on the PC. It DOES have an MP3 player, so I really like that feature when I’m traveling. I don’t have to juggle a book and my MP3 player. Nice capacity size, long lasting battery, very nice style.
After I got a PRS-505, Sony came out with the PRS-700 which raises the price 100.00 but adds a lot more features - touch screen (turn pages with a finger flick), built-in LED light, virtual keyboard (search, highlight, annotate) and about twice the storage size. I would have definitely gone for the PRS-700 if it had been available when I bought mine!
I haven’t played around with it, but apparently both Sony models will display PDFs and offer re-size and reflow (plus changing the orientation from vertical to horizontal) to view them better.
I basically use mine only for travel, just because digital books cost so much. It really is GREAT for travel (no heavy books to carry, no read books to haul back). Book cost is definitely a factor, I don’t buy regular books either, I’m a huge fan of the library system. Sony is apparently starting to partner with libraries - I can’t wait until I can download digital books from my local library for free. Then, I’ll use my Reader a lot more!
I think the only thing that it may sum up is a reason why you and the Kindle would not be a good fit. The Kindle and I would not be a good fit either, because I get a weird, abstract satisfaction from physical books and personally find the Kindle to be kind of awkward.
That being said, if all you want to do is read the book and you like the physical device, I do not see what is absurd about the pricing. You are getting what you want, at a price that may be cheaper and a format that may be more convenient to you. It is not unreasonable to purchase the content for the Kindle if your requirements and the Kindle’s features (or lack thereof) match up.
I really do not see what is so magical about the paper format that justifies pricing order of magnitude over an electronic version. It has some advantages, sure. So does the Kindle. An individual can make a call about which features are more important and pick the option based on that.
But you cannot take that $10 digital download and loan it to a friend, or sell it when you are done.
And you’re comparing a $10 digital download to a $20 hardcover book. I almost never buy hardcover. I have about 600 books in my current (physical) library, and maybe 15 of them are hardcover. I only buy hc when it’s used, it’s paperback otherwise, because they fit nicer on shelves and are almost always uniform in size. Hardcovers seem totally random in size.
So let’s compare the $10 digital download to the $7 paperback. I’m paying $3 more for … the convenience of storing it on a Kindle as opposed to on my library shelf.
I’m also paying $3 more to not be able to loan it out or resell it later.
That PRS-700 actually looks more attractive to me than the Kindle 2. Here are my beefs with the Kindle 2:
-Too much real estate taken up by the physical keyboard. The only place I want a physical keyboard is on my desk. All portable electronic devices should have virtual keyboards instead (IMHO).
-No touch screen. So many devices are touch screen now that I feel like I’d start tapping the Kindle screen in anticipation of doing something, only to realize several seconds later that I have to actually press physical buttons on this thing.
-No color. This one’s already been mentioned. Some media, like magazines, benefit greatly from color.
-Flat-out too expensive. If it had all these features I mention above, I still wouldn’t pay over $200 for one.
Having said all that, I don’t really care that it doesn’t have mp3, video, etc. capabilities. I’m a big proponent of gadget consolidation, but an E-book reader needs to have a certain minimum size (preferably at least as large as a mass-market paperback book) to authentically replicate the reading experience. At that point, it’s too big to carry around for mp3/video usage. That’s what iPods are for.
And the thrust of this thread is a comparison of the features. In order for me to decide if it’s right for me or not, I need to compare the features between the two systems.
It seems like I pay more for a digital book, and can do less with it. It is not so much the content, but what I can do with the content. It’s not so much the device, but what I can do with the content.
With a digital download, I am very limited as to what I can do with it.
In the physical (non-digital) world, I loan out books often. I also sell books I don’t plan on re-reading to used book stores. I’m trying to figure out if the one advantage (and it really does seem like only one) to the Kindle (for book readers) is worth it for me or not.
I know the kindle itself does more (reading blogs and newspapers), but I’m not talking about the Kindle device. I’m talking about comparing the purchase of a digital book (which is then read on a Kindle) compared to the purchase of a physical book.
It seems like I give up a lot of purchaser’s rights when I buy it digitally compared to physically.
True. Like I said, the download is less flexible in some ways, but more convenient in some ways as well.
If a book is available as a $7 paperback, the Kindle download would typically be in the $4-$7 range. I haven’t noticed any examples where a Kindle download cost more than the paperback edition.
Well, I think the actual numbers you quoted were a little suspect - I don’t think you would often actually pay more per book. But even if you did, so what? There are a lot of benefits to the Kindle that clearly are not important to you. I don’t understand the giant leap from “I’ve done the cost benefit analysis and electronic books are not for me” to “the pricing is absurd”.
And that’s not even considering the full cost. You can buy 100 physical books, and all you’re paying for is the cost of the books. You buy 100 ebooks, and you’re paying for the cost of the books plus the reader. 100 books on the Kindle actually cost $13.59 per book, plus tax.
I really want an ebook reader. I have a homebrew one on my NDS and it’s great, but limited in functionality. I’d absolutely love to own a Kindle, but the price needs to come down to at least $300 and the book prices need to hit $5 on average before I’d really consider it. If publishing companies and authors can make a profit off $7-8 paperbacks, surely $5 digital won’t break them. I admit I don’t know how the cost of a book breaks down, but it seems reasonable to me.
Once again - for books that are available as $7 paperbacks, the Kindle edition usually costs between $4 and $7. It’s mostly the new releases that cost $10 - the same books that are only available as $17 hardcovers, or at best $12 paperbacks. Just look up a few books on Amazon and see for yourself.
I don’t find the Kindle pricing absurd at all. Lots of times I get a book that sells for $18-$22 new for $10 on the Kindle.
It’s worth it to me because:
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I do read brand-new books that my library doesn’t have and that are still only available as hardcover. It’s cheaper to buy these on the Kindle.
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There’s a lot of books I don’t want to read and have to store physically. Throw-away beach books, for example. The resale value on a $7.99 paperback is next to nothing in my neck of the woods. I’d rather have it a digital copy, even if it costs the same. That way, I can read it and I don’t have to worry about that damn book that I’m never going to read again hanging around taking up space, and I also don’t have to cart it down to the used book store so they can give me 25 cents for it, or tell me they don’t want it.
Plus, having it digitally is great in case I make a mistake and I do want to re-read that book in a couple years.
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I rarely to never lend out books. So that’s not at all a concern of mine.
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I am an instant gratification junkie and I like being able to get books RIGHT NOW.
If that came up in the thread, I must have missed it. My bad, that makes much more sense.
Actually it may have been a simulpost with you - and no offense meant, sorry if I sounded otherwise.
I have tried reading books in pretty much every electronic format that has received serious attention.
E-Ink is the only format that has survived reading even a single full book.
I questioned it when I bought my Kingle last April but I have only read two paper books since then so I am obviously very satisfied with it. If something is boring me, I always have the other four books I’m reading with me while sitting on the train. If John Stewart hypes a book that sounds interesting I am reading it before the author interview is over. I didn’t have to spend 30 minutes deciding which three books I would take to Italy with me for two weeks only to find out after I’m there that three are duds.
Sure, I dealt with all of those issues with paper books (I am a heavy compulsive reader; one of those people who will break out the book while standing in line at Taco Bell for two minutes) and it was fine.
Also, I almost never specifically loan out books (generally I just dumped them in the break room at work) and I definitely never resell them. So the copy protection on Amazon purchased books is fine with me. The ability to text search every book I’ve read in the last 10 months has proven of great value many times.
So yeah, for me, it has been well worth the $399 (or whatever the original price was) I paid for it. As someone who impulse buys way too many tech geek things I would say it and my Roku are the best purchases I’ve made in years (they certainly get more use than any of my game consoles or iPod touch or etc.).
But when people stop me on the street to ask what I think of it, I am very clear that it is not for everybody. And it really isn’t trying to be. No, it isn’t in color but maybe 5% of the books I read would be helped by color and less than 1% absolutely require it. No it doesn’t display large format books well. Or have very good file management.
It is, however, the most comfortable electronic reading device I’ve ever tried and with the Whispernet access it is the most convenient book shopping experience I’ve ever had.
And this I copmpletely understand, the price of the book is greeater than what you value the book at it. It has nothing to do with how much the books costs to produce. What I find confusing is when someone says they think the book is too expensive becuase it should be cheaper based on how much it presumably costs.
Take the example of the Rembradt, it is valued at $15,000 because someone values it at that much, certainly not because of how much it costs to produce. The digital copy of the Rembradt may well be $14,980 if someone values it at that and is willing to pay it.
It kind of reminds me of the old joke. A man is standing on the corner with a cup of pencils and a sign that reads, ‘Pencils for sale $1,000,000’. Anastonished passer-by asks, “That’s outrageous! How many pencils do you expect to sell at that price?” To which the man responded, “One, if I’m lucky.”
I’m not sure what you are considering the one advantage but I’d list the Kindle (or digital) advantages as:
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Immediate access to anything offered digitally.
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Compactness allowing greater continual selection (your whole library is with you at all times).
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Full search capability (personally I am more often frustrated in attempts to find some key passage in a book I read a year ago than I am wishing to loan out that book).
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Free replacement in case of loss. No, you can’t pass the book along to another person, but if you delete it or lose your Kindle you can replace it for free (either because it was free to begin with or because Amazon downloads it to your new Kindle).
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Comfortable reading of existing non-Amazon free electronic sources (which can be passed on if you want when done). E-Ink is simply, in my view, more comfortable to read than a light emitting screen and so reading Project Gutenberg books is now, 20 years later, something I am willing to do (back in college I used to print them out on paper).
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Meet women/men (not really a serious one but I have had more random women come up and talk to me since I got this thing than in the entire adulthood previous).
There are certainly disadvantages to a Kindle so I do agree that it is a balancing act for each person. If you are on the fence, there is a 30-day return policy. I know several people who bought it to try and assuming they’d send it back 28 days later but so far none of them have.
And what I’m comparing it to, dollar for dollar, is a paperback book, for my purposes. I’m just talking about them “out loud” in this thread to compare them with other’s. My purposes may be different from another person’s, and I’m comparing it to a paperback book, where others may be comparing it to a full library.
I never said the price is absurd - to the person who thought I did, it was someone else. I’m merely comparing the additional cost to the additional benefit(s) and the detriment(s) one gains when switching to the digital format. I’m sorry if you took offense at my musings - I’m really trying to learn from other people’s experiences to see if this is for me, so I’m talking about my needs and asking about people’s usage.
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Immediate access. For anything I might just look up on the Internet, I got a Web capable cell phone. It can get Blogs and newspapers and all kinds of stuff. For getting a new book - I won’t need one until I’m done reading all the ones I have queued up right now, which is enough until the end of the year. I certainly don’t need new content immediately.
Value for me = None. -
Whole library with me at once.
It’s been a very rare occasion that I’ve been away from my library and thought, “Huh, I wish I had this other book with me instead of this one.” I used to read two books at a time, but for the last several years it’s just one book at a time. Since I always take my one book with me when I leave, I always have the amount of my library with me that I need at that time. Being able to access the rest of it from wherever seems like a luxury, not a utility. Yes, I like luxury, but not even counting the cost of the Kindle itself, just the cost of the book, I wouldn’t pay more for that luxury. For me, that doesn’t cut it.
Value for me = Luxury only. -
Search.
This is actually kind of cool. Finding the last time a character was mentioned, or remembering the exact phrase someone used would be nice. I can see some utility here, I’m glad you mentioned it as I had not previously been considering it.
Value for me = Utility. -
Replacement.
The only books I’ve ever lost were ones I loaned out. So you mention that I can’t loan them out, but if I ever do lose it, I can get it replaced. Not only do I have excellent retention ability for my physical books, but also for my electronic files. I have redundant backups of everything and tend not to lose them. I feel like I would gain nothing from this feature (but others definitely would).
Value for me = None. -
Better reading experience than a lighted device, such as my PDA, a Netbook, computer screen, etc.
Right now, I get this experience when I read a physical book. If I carried a Kindle instead of a book, however, I still doubt that I would access a Blog there instead of on my PDA, because I can get them in color on my PDA.
Value for me = None. -
Gadget magnet.
Yeah, I love talking about my cool tech toys, too.
Value for me = Luxury only.
Here’s one you might not have thought about. If I lose a paperback book, I can replace it for $8 at my local Borders or from Amazon.com. If I lose my Kindle, I can replace it for … the cost of a new Kindle.
I assume #4 Replacement means I can get all of the content replaced. So, it’s better than a physical library if my apartment burns down. “My Kindle is toast!” “No problem, buy a new Kindle and get all your books replaced.” Certainly can’t do that with a physical library.
But here’s another question for you - how do we get my existing 600+ books into the Kindle when I buy it? Let’s say I get them all at the paperback price of $5.50 per ($4 to $7 averaged), that’s $3300. I can sell my paperbacks to a book store and get 15% of the cover price. That’s $495 (many of these books were bought in the 80s and have lower cover prices).
So my cost on a Kindle is $359 + $3300 - $495 = $3164.
What do I get for this? I can toss these library shelves (or put other stuff there instead of the books). As an apartment dweller, that’s a huge bonus!
I have now re-bought a bunch of books, and can no longer re-sell those books. Or loan them out (unless I also loan out my entire library, including the book I’m currently reading).
I’m not trying to talk anyone else in to or out of one, I’m just pondering my own choices, out here in the open. Your thoughts are certainly welcome.
Personally, I’m leaning towards a Netbook instead.
You didn’t offend me. And it is fine with me if certain things that are potential advantages are not for you (similarly, the ability to “pass it forward” that a paper book has is of almost no use to me).
And I can assure you that I have considered the expense of loss issue. I left mine on an airport shuttle in Paris and was very pleased to get it back.
I don’t in any way deny that there are disadvantages to the Kindle. I just didn’t know what you were picking as the “one advantage” and so was listing the advantages I saw.
Do you travel? I don’t really want to carry around my whole library at once (and the cost to replace my “library” of paper books would be entirely prohibitive), but I love being able to carry around several books at once. I am a pretty fast reader. On a typical 1 week work trip (including 2 days of travel), I can easily read 4-5 books (and I usually carry back up books in case any of my selected books suck). I really enjoy the convenience of carrying 4-5+ books in one small device. I generally read library books (which tend to be hardcover), so it’s a big deal not to have to lug around 4-5 hard cover books, including schlepping home with the read books.
When I was in Texas when my step dad died, I actually went to the post office and mailed back a flat-rate box of books I had read just so I didn’t have to carry them in my luggage (was afraid of being over the 50.0 lb checked bag limit). This would have been a non issue if I had brought books to read on my Reader (in this case, I didn’t have time, I only had about 2 hours notice to pack up and head to TX, I grabbed my handy library books).