# King Arthur: Jerry Bruckheimer corrects historians **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428 "2004-04-11T06:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/1 "2004-04-11T06:29:26Z")
From the trailer: > [@](#): > > For centuries historians believed that the tale of King Arthur and his Knights was only a legend. But the myth was based on a real hero who lived 1600 years ago. > > The true story behind the legend. Well, though the existence of a military leader named Arthur is debatable, the film also includes “knights” Lancelot and Galahad who are roundly believed to be completely fictional. I find the line “True story behind the legend” a bald-faced lie. Which wouldn’t bug me so much if I didn’t believe that too many people these days are getting their history lessons from movies [cough]PassionoftheChrist[/cough]. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/2 "2004-04-11T06:37:30Z")
I believe the earliest mention of a knight of Arthur’s was of Bedevere. Lancelot didn’t come around until at least the 12th century. I saw the [trailer](http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/king_arthur.html) at a movie the other night and at least the fortifications were more period than usual, though the armor was off and- fifth century Angles were using catapaults! (That would be similar to making a Civil War pic in which Robert E. Lee bombs Washington D.C. from his airship.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/3 "2004-04-11T06:42:04Z")
I should add to the above: the catapult was in use long before Arthur, but not by the Germanic tribes who invaded Britain. Warfare technology was generally downgraded for a few generations after the Roman evacuation of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/4 "2004-04-11T11:55:01Z")
Hollywood using “true story” when it’s not accurate?! No! Not with their sterling reputation for accuracy in film! ---
**Author:** ![Natroga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85f322/32.png) [@Natroga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natroga)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/5 "2004-04-11T12:07:27Z")
Personally, I saw Xena!Gwen and started laughing for 5 minutes straight. Loudly. At the movies. In a pretty big crowd. I mean, are they serious? Is that a historical fact? Could someone please tell me? Warning: Might shake my deepest beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/6 "2004-04-11T12:20:13Z")
And I left **Superman** not believing a man could fly!!! Congress should investigate! Imagine: Hollywood _hypes_ their movies!! I’m shocked. Shocked! The next thing you’ll tell me is that gambling is going on in Las Vegas! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/7 "2004-04-11T13:11:41Z")
And here I was expecting that every time a horse gets hit or falls over or anything it automatically explodes in a gigantic fireball. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/8 "2004-04-11T14:25:18Z")
Who has been cast to play the moistened bint who lobs the scimitar Excalibur at Arthur? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/9 "2004-04-11T14:43:13Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Who has been cast to play the moistened bint who lobs the scimitar Excalibur at Arthur? Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP HELP I’M BEING REPRESSED!! ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/10 "2004-04-11T15:29:36Z")
When I am God Emperor, Jerry Bruckheimer will pay for his crimes. Pay dearly. One of my first acts upon deification will be to seize his wealth and use it to start the greatest film school the world has ever seen. Then I will divide the rest of it equally amongst the moviegoing public. I will keep Little Jerry himself on a leash in my throneroom and periodically force him to dance for my pleasure. Dance, Little Jerry, Dance, or you will taste the prod! Faster! FASTER! But he will never dance fast enough… ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/11 "2004-04-11T17:11:05Z")
Sadly, I’ll have to watch it. It’s got Clive Owen in it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/12 "2004-04-11T17:13:23Z")
Can’t be worse than _Troy_, can it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/13 "2004-04-11T17:21:30Z")
King who? Sir what? Sorry, all I saw was a movie about a bunch of dudes with swords killing some more dudes with swords. Helen of who? Sorry, just a movie about a bunch of dudes outside a city attacking a bunch of dudes inside a city. You guys need to lighten up. It’s Hollywood. Don’t expect history from them. Take the movies for what they are: big budget action flicks. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/14 "2004-04-11T21:00:27Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > And I left **Superman** not believing a man could fly!!! > > Congress should investigate! Imagine: Hollywood _hypes_ their movies!! I’m shocked. Shocked! The next thing you’ll tell me is that gambling is going on in Las Vegas! > > :rolleyes: Don’t roll your eyes at me, Chuck. Movies have a long history of dramatizing events “based on a true story.” The unique aspect of what we’re talking about here is the claim that educated historians are wrong and that this movie is fact. That goes beyond hype. If it is your contention that the only way one can hype one’s product is by stating out and out falsehoods, I hope I am never so unlucky to bid on anything you may put on eBay. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/15 "2004-04-11T21:16:14Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > And here I was expecting that every time a horse gets hit or falls over or anything it automatically explodes in a gigantic fireball. I don’t know about anyone else, but everytime I read that post I bust out laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/16 "2004-04-11T21:58:25Z")
> [@Hey you!](#): > > I hope I am never so unlucky to bid on anything you may put on eBay. Whoa! Ebay slamming! Now that’s fighting dirty! Where’s the “snicker” smiley? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/17 "2004-04-11T23:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe the earliest mention of a knight of Arthur’s was of Bedevere. I think that you’ll find mentions of Sir Kay (Cai) in the “Welsh triads” that precede even Geoffrey of Monmouth, making him the oldest knight in Arthurdom. ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/18 "2004-04-12T02:18:42Z")
> [@Hey you!](#): > > If it is your contention that the only way one can hype one’s product is by stating out and out falsehoods, I hope I am never so unlucky to bid on anything you may put on eBay. If that’s the case, you may want to pass if Sony ever starts selling stuff on eBay. In 2001, _Newsweek_ broke the story that marketing geniuses at Sony had completely fabricated rave reviews for a number of the studio’s films. I can’t seem to find the original story online, but [this page](http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0%2C1%2C8370%2C00.html?yhnws) seems to summarize things pretty well: > [@](#): > > Seems David Manning, the reviewer from the _Ridgefield Press_ who raved about Heath Ledger in _A Knight’s Tale_ (“this year’s hottest new star!”) and gave a big thumbs up to Rob Schneider in _The Animal_ (“another winner!”), is not another Ebert after all, but a character created to pump up Sony movies by the studio’s marketing machine. > … > According to _Newsweek_, which broke the story in this week’s issue, Manning was concocted by an unidentified Sony marketing executive last July to put a positive spin on the hit-starved studio’s films. > … > _Newsweek_ says Manning’s critiques were completely fabricated and the studio has launched an internal investigation into the incident. Call me a cynic, but if a movie studio is willing to go that far, I’m not particularly surprised that Bruckheimer and Touchstone would feel little compunction about making a specious “claim that educated historians are wrong.” Heck, I guess we should be glad they didn’t just concoct an educated historian out of thin air to tell us how accurate the film is… ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/19 "2004-04-12T04:42:05Z")
> [@chukhung](#): > > Heck, I guess we should be glad they didn’t just concoct an educated historian out of thin air to tell us how accurate the film is… Maybe the movie will have a fictional educated historian appear on screen and start lecturing on the “real” historic background. And then a knight can come by on horseback and kill him! Ha ha! Of course, at the end the police would have to show up and arrest everyone involved. Side question: Has there ever actually been a good _serious_ film about King Arthur? _Holy Grail_ is, IMHO, not only a better movie but actually more historically and legendarily accurate than any other Arthur flick I can remember seeing! ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428/20 "2004-04-12T04:46:26Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Side question: Has there ever actually been a good _serious_ film about King Arthur? _Holy Grail_ is, IMHO, not only a better movie but actually more historically and legendarily accurate than any other Arthur flick I can remember seeing! Surely you’re not forgetting _Knightriders,_ are you? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-arthur-jerry-bruckheimer-corrects-historians/239428.md?page=2)