# King Crimson and...gay audience?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [October 28, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072 "2017-10-28T15:41:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/1 "2017-10-28T15:41:33Z")
It’s difficult for me to even formulate this question, but…
I noticed the other night at a King Crimson concert that there was a very large segment of the audience that was gay men. It was very noticeable to me (and to my wife). Now, I would expect that there would be very few women interested in King Crimson, but I was totally surprised by the large percentage of gay men who attended.
Was I completely wrong in thinking this? Am I out of touch? Is this something I just missed at previous concerts (many years ago)?
Personally, I think it’s great when ANYBODY appreciates KC. It just surprised me.
---
### Author:  [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/2 "2017-10-28T17:45:55Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#):
>
> It’s difficult for me to even formulate this question, but…
>
> I noticed the other night at a King Crimson concert that there was a very large segment of the audience that was gay men. It was very noticeable to me (and to my wife). Now, I would expect that there would be very few women interested in King Crimson, but I was totally surprised by the large percentage of gay men who attended.
>
> Was I completely wrong in thinking this? Am I out of touch? Is this something I just missed at previous concerts (many years ago)?
>
> Personally, I think it’s great when ANYBODY appreciates KC. It just surprised me.
Their '72-'74 incarnation had some lyrics that made mention, like Wetton getting a little impish [here,](https://youtu.be/dv4LWZMaIBE?t=42) and speaking of “deceiver”, I’m guessing Wetton uses “decieve”, [here, (“If only I could deceive you”)](https://youtu.be/HQepXuWxvog?t=9) to mean the same thing.
In the _Discipline_ era, when Belew sings about “Neal and Jack and Me - absent lovers, absent lovers”, my guess is that’s more a platonic ode to those beat writers than anything.
Then again, because of my lack of inclination in that area, my gay-dar might not be the sharpest.
ETA: In the “Book of Saturday”, from above, there’s also the lyric “boys in the band”, which was also the name of a groundbreaking film about gays from a couple years earlier.
---
### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/3 "2017-10-28T18:05:10Z")
Where was the show?
---
### Author:  [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/4 "2017-10-28T18:23:39Z")
Raleigh, NC, which is a fairly metropolitan area (with NCSU, UNC, and Duke).
Again, I have not problem whatsoever. Hell, I would have sent my wife home in a cab and had a few drinks with other KC fans, given the chance.
---
### Author:  [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/5 "2017-10-28T19:55:51Z")
In “I Talk to the Wind” (off _Court of the Crimson King_):
\*Said the straight man,
To the late man,
“Where have you beeee-een?”
“I’ve been here and,
I’ve been there and,
I’ve been in betweee-een”\*
For all I know Greg Lake was just going for whimsy, but those lyrics could definitely get appropriated for what’s stated in the OP.
Well, I think I’ve skinned this cat for as much as possible.
---
### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/6 "2017-10-28T20:09:54Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#):
>
> In “I Talk to the Wind” (off _Court of the Crimson King_):
>
> \*Said the straight man,
> To the late man,
> “Where have you beeee-een?”
>
> “I’ve been here and,
> I’ve been there and,
> I’ve been in betweee-een”\*
>
> For all I know Greg Lake was just going for whimsy, but those lyrics could definitely get appropriated for what’s stated in the OP.
>
> Well, I think I’ve skinned this cat for as much as possible.
It was Pete Sinfield that wrote the lyrics. This is his wiki:
> **[Peter Sinfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sinfield)**
>
> Peter John Sinfield (27 December 1943 – 14 November 2024) was an English poet and songwriter. He was best known as a co-founder and lyricist of King Crimson. Their debut album In the Court of the Crimson King is considered one of the first and most influential progressive rock albums ever released. Sinfield's lyrics are known for their surreal imagery, often involving common fantasy concepts, nature, or the sea. They often also deal with emotional concepts and, sometimes, storyline concepts. La...
---
### Author:  [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/7 "2017-10-28T22:33:30Z")
Further research indicates that \*\*RED \*\*is a pivotal album.
---
### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/8 "2017-10-28T23:22:04Z")
I agree with the OP. It isn’t shocking that there are gay Crimso fans, but they’ve never had any particular appeal to the gay community.
There have been MANY musicians in King Crimson over the years, but none that I know of were gay. And their lyrics never dealt with gay themes.
At a KC concert, I expect nerds, not gays.
---
### Author:  [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/9 "2017-10-29T00:00:57Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#):
>
> \*Said the straight man,
> To the late man,
> “Where have you beeee-een?”
>
> “I’ve been here and,
> I’ve been there and,
> I’ve been in betweee-een”\*
Deep.
---
### Author:  [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/10 "2017-10-29T01:54:24Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#):
>
> […]
> ETA: In the “Book of Saturday”, from above, there’s also the lyric “boys in the band”, which was also the name of a groundbreaking film about gays from a couple years earlier.
Thanks for the (fantastic) earworm. What’s up with that “banana boat ride”? 🙂
Slight hijack… how was the show? What song impressed you most?
I was going to go, but talked myself out of it. Should i be feeling regretful?
---
### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/11 "2017-10-29T03:05:00Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#):
>
> Their '72-'74 incarnation had some lyrics that made mention, like Wetton getting a little impish [here,](https://youtu.be/dv4LWZMaIBE?t=42) and speaking of “deceiver”, I’m guessing Wetton uses “decieve”, [here, (“If only I could deceive you”)](https://youtu.be/HQepXuWxvog?t=9) to mean the same thing.
>
> In the _Discipline_ era, when Belew sings about “Neal and Jack and Me - absent lovers, absent lovers”, my guess is that’s more a platonic ode to those beat writers than anything.
>
> Then again, because of my lack of inclination in that area, my gay-dar might not be the sharpest.
>
> ETA: In the “Book of Saturday”, from above, there’s also the lyric “boys in the band”, which was also the name of a groundbreaking film about gays from a couple years earlier.
John Wetton didn’t write the lyrics for King Crimson- his friend Richard Palmer-James did.
Wetton was straight, and enjoyed the perks of rock stardom, including ladies (he finally got married a few years ago, before he developed the cancer that killed him).
---
### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/12 "2017-10-29T04:08:52Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> John Wetton didn’t write the lyrics for King Crimson- his friend Richard Palmer-James did.
>
> Wetton was straight, and enjoyed the perks of rock stardom, including ladies (he finally got married a few years ago, before he developed the cancer that killed him).
“A few” = less than 1.
> **[John Wetton married Syracuse woman 2 months before dying](https://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/2017/02/asia_john_wetton_dead_wife_lisa_syracuse.html)**
>
> "We are prepared to risk everything," Lisa (Nojaim) Wetton said in November.
That’s his wedding picture in the upper right corner. He definitely did not look like himself. ☹
It said he also had a son, although not with his wife, who in addition to being a drummer was also a licensed physician’s assistant. 🆒
---
### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/13 "2017-10-29T04:30:25Z")
I’m curious. How does the OP know these people were gay? Is it tattooed on the back of the neck or something?
---
### Author:  [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/14 "2017-10-29T06:58:04Z")
it used to be an don’t ask don’t tell thing In metal…but a lot of them know that theres a gay s&M leather culture among fans
it used to be a joke that the bands could tell the difference by looking to see who was wearing the expensive stuff…
then the singer in judas priest came out…
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### Author:  [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/15 "2017-10-29T12:03:29Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#):
>
> Thanks for the (fantastic) earworm. What’s up with that “banana boat ride”? 🙂
>
> Slight hijack… how was the show? What song impressed you most?
>
> I was going to go, but talked myself out of it. Should i be feeling regretful?
The setlist was pretty much the same as for the last few shows, though they mixed up the sequence a bit. Did a great job on “Islands” and “Starless.” I especially enjoyed "Pictures of a City,’ since I use a few bars of that as my ringtone.
The show was long, from about 8:10P until 11:20P with a 20-minute intermission. The show was worth seeing, but as much for the chance to see so many legendary sidemen (and Fripp) as for any other reason. Tony Levin was pretty awesome. (I believe that Fripp and Levin are both 71.)
---
### Author:  [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/16 "2017-10-29T12:22:48Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#):
>
> I’m curious. How does the OP know these people were gay? Is it tattooed on the back of the neck or something?
Fair point. I didn’t notice any tattoos. 😃
The crowd was overwhelmingly male, with many obvious same-gender couples (PDAs, etc.) I talked to people sitting near me and they were pretty clear about it. Also, I was wearing my hearing aids, which pick up sounds from behind me almost better than they do from the front under certain circumstances. Want to or not, I end up overhearing conversations from diners behind me at restaurants, people sitting even multiple rows behind me, and people scattered in crowds and ticket lines. (I actually have a setting on my aids that reduces the effect, but I don’t like to use it when I’m at a concert.)
Another factor was that everybody was unfailingly polite and well-mannered. It was the exact opposite of a Cheap Trick concert, even though the age-range and %age of males were very similar. (Now somebody is going to get on me for being bigoted against heterosexuals.)
Maybe I’m totally off-base, but I do believe that there were many more gay men there (and several lesbian couples) than you would get in a random sample of the same age groups.
---
### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/17 "2017-10-29T14:11:24Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#):
>
> Fair point. I didn’t notice any tattoos. 😃
>
> The crowd was overwhelmingly male, with many obvious same-gender couples (PDAs, etc.) I talked to people sitting near me and they were pretty clear about it. Also, I was wearing my hearing aids, which pick up sounds from behind me almost better than they do from the front under certain circumstances. Want to or not, I end up overhearing conversations from diners behind me at restaurants, people sitting even multiple rows behind me, and people scattered in crowds and ticket lines. (I actually have a setting on my aids that reduces the effect, but I don’t like to use it when I’m at a concert.)
>
> Another factor was that everybody was unfailingly polite and well-mannered. It was the exact opposite of a Cheap Trick concert, even though the age-range and %age of males were very similar. (Now somebody is going to get on me for being bigoted against heterosexuals.)
>
> Maybe I’m totally off-base, but I do believe that there were many more gay men there (and several lesbian couples) than you would get in a random sample of the same age groups.
Well, prog rock concerts in general get older, white, professional male audiences. When Crimson played Austin last week, they weren’t at a stadium or rock club- they were at the Bass concert hall, which tends to host operas, symphony concerts, and touring Broadway musicals!
Crimson audiences (like Rush audiences) tend to get thousands of fifty or sixty something white male engineers and programmers, plus the few wives and girlfriends they drag along. Not a rowdy or dangerous bunch.
PS My wife went to the last Austin Rush concert with me. She didn’t like the music, but was thrilled there were NO lines to the ladies room!
---
### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/18 "2017-10-29T20:29:12Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#):
>
> It said he also had a son, although not with his wife, who in addition to being a drummer was also a licensed physician’s assistant. 🆒
Upon re-reading this sentence, the point is not clear. It’s his widow who was a drummer and PA-C, not his son. :o
---
### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/19 "2017-10-29T20:32:24Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> Crimson audiences (like Rush audiences) tend to get thousands of fifty or sixty something white male engineers and programmers, plus the few wives and girlfriends they drag along. Not a rowdy or dangerous bunch.
>
> PS My wife went to the last Austin Rush concert with me. She didn’t like the music, but was thrilled there were NO lines to the ladies room!
My last Rush concerts were in 1994, and by that time, people were already starting to bring their kids. Now, in my case, I would be a 50-something woman who might drag along an SO, if I had one. 😛
Those concerts were within a week of each other, in different states. (Long story.) Since you mentioned the ladies’ room, when I was at the local show, I went to the lineless restroom and saw a college classmate who was as surprised to see me as I was to see her. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)
#### Post date: [October 29, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-crimson-and-gay-audience/800072/20 "2017-10-29T20:34:36Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#):
>
> It’s difficult for me to even formulate this question, but…Personally, I think it’s great when ANYBODY appreciates KC…Again, I have not problem whatsoever…Maybe I’m totally off-base…
You forgot _not that there’s anything wrong with that._
mmm
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