# King Juan Carlos of Spain is abdicating **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836 "2014-06-02T14:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/21 "2014-06-03T00:47:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yeah, if Her Majesty lives as long as her mother did he’ll be _80_ when he ascends the throne. Unlike her continental cousins she _will_ die on the throne. The most Charles can hope for before that is for her faculties to decline enough for him to be declared Prince Regent. > > There’s no legal mechanism in the UK for a monarch to abdicate either. Back in 1936 when Edward VIII abdicated he had to make an ad hoc formal declaration of his intent, then not only did the British Parliament have to pass a law declaring his brother king in his (& his heirs place) so did every other country he was king of (Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, & the Irish Free State). Edward VIII also had to give royal assent to said act (or the local viceroy assented in his name. > > In Spain in appears that a full constitutional amendment (not just a mere act of the Cortez General) is needed. What’s the constitutional amendment process in Spain? Do they have to have a referendum, or just a supermajority in the Cortez General? Playing Google lawyer, hopefully somebody with real knowledge can chime in: > [@](#): > > Article 57.5 of the Spanish constitution reads: “abdications and withdrawals and any factual or legal doubt that affects the order of succession to the Crown will be resolved with an organic law” [http://www.thespainreport.com/7991/king-spain-abdicates/](http://www.thespainreport.com/7991/king-spain-abdicates/) And “organic law in Spain,” per Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Under the current Spanish Constitution of 1978, an Organic Law has an intermediate status between that of an ordinary law and of the constitution itself. It must be passed by an absolute majority of the Congress of Deputies. > **[Organic law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_law)** > > An organic law is a law, or system of laws, that form the foundation of a government, corporation or any other organization's body of rules. A constitution is a particular form of organic law. > Under Article 46 of the Constitution of France, organic laws (in French, lois organiques; in English sometimes translated as Institutional Acts) are a short, fixed list of statutes (in 2005, there were about 30 of them) specified in the Constitution. They overrule ordinary statutes. They must be properly e... The Congress of Deputies is defined as the lower house of the Cortes. So it doesn’t sound like an actual constitutional amendment is needed, but some kind of special law has to be promulgated. I think a constitutional amendment would be needed, though, if they were to give Infanta Leonor the position of Princess of Asturias and not just “heir presumptive.” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/22 "2014-06-03T01:10:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Back in 1936 when Edward VIII abdicated he had to make an ad hoc formal declaration of his intent, then not only did the British Parliament have to pass a law declaring his brother king in his (& his heirs place) so did every other country he was king of (Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, & the Irish Free State). Only the British Parliament _had_ to, and only Ireland opted out from that to enact its own binding legislation. Canada and South Africa later enacted ceremonial abdication acts, but they were legally meaningless and several months late. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/23 "2014-06-03T02:35:52Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > One of the really weird things is that Franco’s granddaughter married a descendant of Juan Carlos’ grandfather. They have one living [child](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alphonse,_Duke_of_Anjou#Ancestors). Very unexpected mix of families. Why is that unexpected? Didn’t Franco pretty much hand pick Juan Carlos as his successor? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/24 "2014-06-03T03:48:27Z")
James II was deemed to have abandoned the throne and abdicated. Elizabeth II will not abdicate because her uncle’s abdication was such a terrible imposition on her father. He actually did a much better job than David could possibly have done because he took it seriously. Elizabeth II is scaling back her duties because of her age. I suspect that Charles will become regent within the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/25 "2014-06-03T03:53:51Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > 😃 Really? I always assumed that the elephant-hunting incident was more relevant than the… blonde-shagging one. But perhaps that’s just because I like elephants more than I like the Queen I think you’re a male. Almost half the population cares more about not running grooves in their own ceilings (or at least running them discreetely) than about some big cute animals that are supposed to be getting culled anyway. And “the king wastes money” isn’t exactly news, with what he spends in cars that he’s not supposed to run at the speeds for which they were designed we could tear down Marina D’Or and replace it with something that fire ladders can reach. There have been “the king’s blondes” since prince Juan Carlos became king Juan Carlos\*, and there have always been women whose worst opinion of Sofia is “and she had to go and fall in love with that imbecile.” - Previously they were the prince’s blondes. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/26 "2014-06-03T04:05:29Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > The Congress of Deputies is defined as the lower house of the Cortes. So it doesn’t sound like an actual constitutional amendment is needed, but some kind of special law has to be promulgated. I think a constitutional amendment would be needed, though, if they were to give Infanta Leonor the position of Princess of Asturias and not just “heir presumptive.” Not as far as I know. And we have a little terminology problem here (one about which I’ve had discussions in these boards previously): in Spanish legal terminology, a heir is presumptive until the very instant he takes the inheritance; if Felipe died in a car crash on his way to the ceremony he would have died being his father’s pressumptive heir, but not having inherited, not being (again, Spanish legal terminology) his heir. The titles of Prince of Asturias, Gerona and Viana are given to a prince that’s been confirmed as being his father’s desired heir rather than merely “the first person in line”, but if you look at any documents from the Royal House or Spanish Government, they’ll still be considered “presumptive” - because they still haven’t inherited. [57.1](http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/EBB3AFF7-C7EF-4009-A15E-E7D75FB3C8F5/232644/Constitucion_es1.pdf) Semi-salic succesion. Leo is her father’s expected heir. 57.2: the Prince(ss) who’s expected to inherit shall hold the title of Prince(ss) of Asturias and all others traditionally linked to the heir of the Crown, from the moment of their birth or the moment in which they “are called” (i.e., recognized as first in line and apparently capable) (The phrasing “_príncipe_” is non-exclusive by gender, as 57.1 already establishes it can be a Princess). Leo does not automatically move from Infanta to Princesa, due to her age, but if her parents wish to have her named as heiress presumptive already, they can. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/27 "2014-06-03T04:38:29Z")
The current Spanish house is actually related to Prince Charles. One of Felipe’s ancestors married Victoria Eugenie, a daughter of Princess Beatrice and granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Poor woman was a carrier of hemophilia and had to have several male heirs before one survived. She was said to be quite pretty – blond and slim but did not have an easy life. Her husband despised her for the hemophilia and cheated on her all the time. She had to convert to Catholicism to marry him and got a lot of grief over it in England and not always a lot of trust from the Spaniards. A bomb actually exploded right next to her on her wedding day, nearly killing her and her spouse. The Spanish thought her cold and aloof. She and her husband were forced to abdicate before Juan Carlos was able to take back the throne with Franco’s agreement. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/28 "2014-06-03T04:51:57Z")
What exactly did Juan Carlos do to convince Franco (a very sharpe knife by all accounts ) that he would continue as Franco II not support democratic transitions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/29 "2014-06-03T05:31:45Z")
I believe the monarch abdicating is a tradition, or at least that’s been the case for the last few, so it’s not a big deal. I don’t think it came as a surprise – it was pretty much expected. Liz, on the other hand, ain’t gonna step aside. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The current Spanish house is actually related to Prince Charles. One of Felipe’s ancestors married Victoria Eugenie, a daughter of Princess Beatrice and granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Poor woman was a carrier of hemophilia and had to have several male heirs before one survived. She was said to be quite pretty – blond and slim but did not have an easy life. Her husband despised her for the hemophilia and cheated on her all the time. She had to convert to Catholicism to marry him and got a lot of grief over it in England and not always a lot of trust from the Spaniards. A bomb actually exploded right next to her on her wedding day, nearly killing her and her spouse. The Spanish thought her cold and aloof. She and her husband were forced to abdicate before Juan Carlos was able to take back the throne with Franco’s agreement. Juan Carlos’s grandmother. Most of their sons were either hemophiliacs or deaf mutes, except for Juan Carlos’s father, who was declared the heir. Only he wasn’t acceptable to Franco, so he stepped aside for his son. Little did Franco know…😉 (BTW, the Duchess of York named her daughters after Princess Beatrice and her daughter.) ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/30 "2014-06-03T05:52:56Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The current Spanish house is actually related to Prince Charles. One of Felipe’s ancestors married Victoria Eugenie, a daughter of Princess Beatrice and granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Poor woman was a carrier of hemophilia and had to have several male heirs before one survived. She was said to be quite pretty – blond and slim but did not have an easy life. Her husband despised her for the hemophilia and cheated on her all the time. She had to convert to Catholicism to marry him and got a lot of grief over it in England and not always a lot of trust from the Spaniards. A bomb actually exploded right next to her on her wedding day, nearly killing her and her spouse. The Spanish thought her cold and aloof. She and her husband were forced to abdicate before Juan Carlos was able to take back the throne with Franco’s agreement. Sofia is actually a direct descendant of Queen Victoria as well, through her eldest daughter Victoria. So Felipe is the great-great-great-great-great-grandchild through both parents. The hemophilia in the royal families appears to have disappeared with the deaths of Gonzalo, Alfonso, and Tsarevich Alexei, but the elephant hunting scandal isn’t the first time Juan Carlos has shot something he wasn’t supposed to: he accidentally killed his 14-year-old brother in 1956. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/31 "2014-06-03T06:08:38Z")
Is Felipe going to be Philip VI? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/32 "2014-06-03T06:20:58Z")
Jesus. It’s the XXI century. Why is this whole nonsense a thing at all? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/33 "2014-06-03T07:43:16Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > Sofia is actually a direct descendant of Queen Victoria as well, through her eldest daughter Victoria. So Felipe is the great-great-great-great-great-grandchild through both parents. Pretty much every European royal is a descendent of Queen Victoria, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/34 "2014-06-03T11:11:14Z")
There are 7 monarchies left in Europe. Of those 7, the only two that aren’t descended from Victoria are the Kings of Belgium and the Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/35 "2014-06-03T11:25:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > not running grooves in their own ceilings (or at least running them discreetely) … What? ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/36 "2014-06-03T11:30:16Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The current Spanish house is actually related to Prince Charles. One of Felipe’s ancestors married Victoria Eugenie, a daughter of Princess Beatrice and granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Poor woman was a carrier of hemophilia and had to have several male heirs before one survived. She was said to be quite pretty – blond and slim but did not have an easy life. Her husband despised her for the hemophilia and cheated on her all the time. She had to convert to Catholicism to marry him and got a lot of grief over it in England and not always a lot of trust from the Spaniards. A bomb actually exploded right next to her on her wedding day, nearly killing her and her spouse. The Spanish thought her cold and aloof. She and her husband were forced to abdicate before Juan Carlos was able to take back the throne with Franco’s agreement. Prince Charles is more closely related to them than that, as he and Queen Sofia are second cousins. Her paternal grandfather was the Duke of Edinburgh’s uncle. [QUOTE=Guinastasia] Only he [Juan Carlos’s father] wasn’t acceptable to Franco, so he stepped aside for his son. [/QUOTE] Well, up to a point… His father wasn’t at all happy when Juan Carlos was designated as Franco’s successor and he initially refused to renounce his own claim to the throne. It was only eighteen months after Juan Carlos had become king that Juan recognised him as such. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/37 "2014-06-03T13:13:56Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Jesus. It’s the XXI century. Why is this whole nonsense a thing at all? Monarchies can be surprisingly durable institutions: [Monarchy - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy#Current_monarchies) ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/38 "2014-06-03T13:39:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What? Perhaps it’s a Spanish idiom whose meaning is lost in translation. Slightly confusing thread all round - King Juan Carlos has been shagging elephants? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/39 "2014-06-03T13:57:36Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Perhaps it’s a Spanish idiom whose meaning is lost in translation. Slightly confusing thread all round - King Juan Carlos has been shagging elephants? It is a Spanish idiom with a lost in translation meaning. King Juan Carlos apparently has been having affairs (this is not something my source of European and Spanish high class news, ¡Hola! discusses), and **Nava** mentions how that fact is more damning to him (in court of public opinion) than whether or not he hunts elephants. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836/40 "2014-06-03T14:25:53Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Unlike her continental cousins she [Elizabeth II]\* will\* die on the throne. Jeeze, that would be embarrassing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-juan-carlos-of-spain-is-abdicating/689836.md?page=3)