# King Trump: How would Reps Respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113 "2021-12-15T17:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/101 "2021-12-17T20:08:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Nobody would put their name on a piece of parchment saying “We declare Trump is King of America.” It’s quite easy to defend that position, because we all know that coup plotters don’t spell things out like that. What if they just held a bucket of fried chicken over his head three times to see if he refused it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/102 "2021-12-17T20:10:29Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Regarding Antifa, someone in Trumpworld will work out that detail, whether it means crafting a plan that doesn’t depend on Antifa, or figuring out a better approach to provoking a response. They didn’t fail by much, and they will try again. Some Republican somewhere will read a book about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, and come to the conclusion that if Antifa won’t play the proper role for them, they will INVENT a better Antifa that will. One that they can direct and control to play the role of “bad guys” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/103 "2021-12-17T20:18:44Z")
So if the military and intelligence community, for example, didn’t follow King Trump’s orders, who forces them to comply? They might obey “what if we didn’t,” but they might not. If someone tries to fire them, why can’t they play “what if we didn’t” in return? What motivation do they have to obey at this point if they don’t want to? It’s the structure of government outside the politicians that seem to be important here. If Republicans played “what if we didn’t,” and Democrats played it right back, who or what will the structure, the people who make things happen, do? That seems to be the primary question. Republicans say, “Trump is president.” Great. So which generals are going to listen to him and which aren’t? Which bureaucrats will release sensitive info to him and which won’t? Which Secret Service agents will obey his orders and which won’t? Is Trump better positioned to do this than he was in January 2021? Maybe he is, but it’s still a question to ask; people then seemed pretty confident he’d be marched out against his will if he lost. Maybe that was misguided, but it’s still an issue. This, I think, is the main obstacle I’m seeing to the scenario. If it is so, then there’s literally nothing stopping Republicans from completely taking over the government _right now_. And maybe it’s so, but I’m not certain about it. I think my problem with the discussion so far is this assumption of, _of course_ Trump would get to wield power in this scenario; everyone in the government is _self evidently_ going to go along with him just because Republicans say so. I understand why people think this, but I’m not yet convinced this is the _fait accompli_ that seems to be assumed. One reason Congress _might_ not go along with it is that such a move would basically take away all their power and influence. What use will Trump have for them once every single structural pillar is thrown out the window? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/104 "2021-12-17T21:37:43Z")
The military and secret service are often assumed to be pro-Trump. No doubt many who serve their country have a conservative mindset. But a majority voted Democrat AFAIR. This may be because they understand to a degree few of us do the ramifications of undermining important (but very imperfect) international bodies, unprecedented unminuted meetings where one acts as lickspittle to foreign grand panjandrums, the patriotic pride in seeing good intelligence properly applied and appreciation and understanding of efforts instead of condescension. I think the current chance of a coronation being accepted is low. It may be true that the person who made the largest donative could become the leader of the Roman Empire not long after all the “Five Good Emperors” had served. Just not for very long. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/105 "2021-12-17T21:39:33Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > One reason Congress _might_ not go along with it is that such a move would basically take away all their power and influence. What use will Trump have for them once every single structural pillar is thrown out the window? Perhaps someone should show the more treasonous members of Congress a little bit of history. Say [The Night of The Long Knives.](https://www.britannica.com/event/Night-of-the-Long-Knives) And explain to them in small words that they will be the first on the gallows after King Trump is appointed. Self-preservation can be useful, if they actually understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/106 "2021-12-17T22:38:12Z")
Even a Supreme is mindful of how future judges will see them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/107 "2021-12-17T22:45:46Z")
They are more mindful of how history will judge them…and history is written by the victors for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/108 "2021-12-18T13:46:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So if the military and intelligence community, for example, didn’t follow King Trump’s orders, who forces them to comply? They might obey “what if we didn’t,” but they might not. If someone tries to fire them, why can’t they play “what if we didn’t” in return? What motivation do they have to obey at this point if they don’t want to? Half the national security apparatus decides to mount a coup. They tell the other half “if you don’t make trouble, you can retire with a full pension after the revolution.” Based on what I’ve seen over the past 4 years, many would be happy to tweak their personal definition of ‘rule of law’ just to keep that sweet sweet pension money coming in. All it takes is a credible movement and the right influencers. How many of these people do you think signed up to go to war against a popular former president, at great risk to themselves and family, vs. a life of fairly safe service to a rich and stable government? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/109 "2021-12-18T15:29:27Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So if the military and intelligence community, for example, didn’t follow King Trump’s orders, who forces them to comply? They might obey “what if we didn’t,” but they might not. If someone tries to fire them, why can’t they play “what if we didn’t” in return? What motivation do they have to obey at this point if they don’t want to? The problem here is, “the military and intelligence community” is not all of a single mind. Some elements may serve to protect the Constitutional order of government, but others might decide to support Trump. And in any case, if you’re relying on the military to remove a person from office who refuses to leave, well, that’s a pretty good working definition of “civil war”. Trump will have at least a few trigger pullers trying to protect him, and the sight of the US Army gunning them down is very likely to trigger widespread violence from all the Proud Boys types. > [@Leaper](#): > > One reason Congress _might_ not go along with it is that such a move would basically take away all their power and influence. What use will Trump have for them once every single structural pillar is thrown out the window? Two factors here: Firstly, like with the transition of the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, having the illusion of an independent senate supporting the emperor’s rules is valuable in controlling the public. Secondly, we already see several of the more fanatical and stupid members of congress having no interest in the actual job of governing. See: [House Removes Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene From Her Committee Assignments](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/04/963785609/house-to-vote-on-stripping-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-from-2-key-committees) For most normal members of Congress, being on such committees is hugely important, because that’s where a lot of the real power lies. But Empty Greene doesn’t give a single crap about that. To her, being in Congress is all about promoting her own brand and promoting Trump. Taking away any actual work just lets her spend more time Trolling for Trump. And she’s not the only one like that. The new generation of GOP office holders coming up behind Trump are disproportionately the same kinds of people. They’d have no problem with just being Trump’s Rubber Stamp Caucus, just so long as they can continue to grift their idiot supporters to line their own pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/110 "2021-12-18T18:16:46Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Two factors here: Firstly, like with the transition of the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, having the illusion of an independent senate supporting the emperor’s rules is valuable in controlling the public. The only question is: Who do they dupe into playing the role of Jar Jar Binks? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/111 "2021-12-18T19:10:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So…Trump becomes King. All the people whose understanding of the world comes via facebook and fox can go worship him. He can say he’s #1 all day long without having to do any actual work, which was always his desire. Brilliant! After all, we’ve already had an [Emperor Norton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton), who died in 1880 so the position has been vacant for a while now. > Norton had no formal political power; nevertheless, he was treated deferentially in San Francisco, and currency issued in his name was honored in the establishments that he frequented. His rule was recognized by the [Kingdom of Hawaii](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hawaii). Some considered him insane or [eccentric](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentricity_(behavior)),[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton#cite_note-PBS-11) but citizens of San Francisco celebrated his imperial presence and his proclamations, such as his order that the United States Congress be dissolved by force and his numerous decrees calling for the construction of a bridge and tunnel crossing [San Francisco Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay) to connect San Francisco with [Oakland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/112 "2021-12-18T23:46:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Half the national security apparatus decides to mount a coup. They tell the other half “if you don’t make trouble, you can retire with a full pension after the revolution.” Why would they/anyone think the dollar would be worth a thing after a hostile fascist takeover? Or that it’d leave behind a “stable” government? Or that there’d be businesses worth a damn operating, given an invincible-feeling Trump’s propensities to just take what he wants (like p\*\*\*\*\*\*)? Pensions, hah. Like a Trump put into power in those circumstances would want such a waste of _his_ money. I’m not saying there aren’t those dumb enough to fall for that, but half? Maybe the next guy after Trump, sure, but Trump put in by “what if we didn’t”? I’m not at all sure. > [@Horatius](#): > > They’d have no problem with just being Trump’s Rubber Stamp Caucus, Again, I doubt the continued existence of Congress after such an event. Though I fully acknowledge that the people we’re talking about are probably too stupid to realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/113 "2021-12-18T23:59:32Z")
Oop, more. > [@Horatius](#): > > And in any case, if you’re relying on the military to remove a person from office who refuses to leave, well, that’s a pretty good working definition of “civil war”. Trump will have at least a few trigger pullers trying to protect him, and the sight of the US Army gunning them down is very likely to trigger widespread violence from all the Proud Boys types. And obviously that’s possible. What I was objecting to was the specific scenarios in this thread: Trump is put up despite laws against it, the courts rule against them, Republicans say, what if we didn’t, and yadda yadda Trump is pulling the levers of the government. I’m just saying that folks in this thread seem to be just yadda yadda-ing over an important part and not seeming to understand why anyone might disagree. If we’re talking about the complex and messy civil war scenarios, sure, but that doesn’t seem to be what’s being proposed in many of the posts above. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/114 "2021-12-19T03:43:04Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I’m just saying that folks in this thread seem to be just yadda yadda-ing over an important part and not seeming to understand why anyone might disagree. If we’re talking about the complex and messy civil war scenarios, sure, but that doesn’t seem to be what’s being proposed in many of the posts above. Part of this that you need to understand is that a lot of the GOP are believing their own bullshit. One of the reasons they think “But what if we don’t?” will work is because they really believe the military and police forces will be on their side, and that the people opposing the takeover will be too cowardly to actually take action against them. And yes, that’s a stupid belief, particularly when you look at their rhetoric about Antifa and BLM, but believing two mutually contradictory stupid things is pretty much par for the course with these people. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/115 "2021-12-19T04:30:20Z")
So how does any of that end up with Trump _actually_ cruising into control of the government. I’m not saying you’re wrong about any of what you wrote above, but I’m still not sure how it addresses my point. Are you saying that the beliefs make true believers more motivated to make it reality? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/116 "2021-12-19T04:45:49Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So how does any of that end up with Trump _actually_ cruising into control of the government. Essentially it involves the same scenario as January 6, 2021, but with Republicans controlling Congress, which is something they might well do on January 6, 2024. Had the Republicans controlled Congress, it’s entirely possible that would have used the Electoral Count Act to simply reject enough electoral votes to throw the “election” to the House, where Trump would have been elected President. Had that happened, you can be damn sure subsequent elections would have been more fixed still. What’s to stop this from happening in 2024? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/117 "2021-12-19T04:53:53Z")
And, yes, I agree that’s possible, but I’m still not seeing the relevancy to what my issues are, because I personally see fundamental differences between the scenario you’re outlining here and many of the ones discussed earlier in this thread. Your scenario skips over a lot of the steps and actual issues I had with those earlier posts (e.g. Trump is running for a third term, he’s deemed ineligible, and Republicans nominate him anyway and dare anyone to do anything about it). But apparently, I’m not making myself understood very well, so I’m gonna take a break to figure out if there’s some way I can express myself better. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/118 "2021-12-19T12:52:21Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Your scenario skips over a lot of the steps and actual issues I had with those earlier posts (e.g. Trump is running for a third term, he’s deemed ineligible, and Republicans nominate him anyway and dare anyone to do anything about it). The key is, if Trump is running for a **third** term, that means he (somehow) was president for a **second** term. We already see Republican lawmakers all over the US screwing with the electoral system, with the obvious purpose of making it easier for Trump to win in 2024. I hope you can see that this is what they’re doing _right now_. What do you think they’ll be doing during the entire four years of Trump’s second term? They’ll be setting up the entire system they need so that they control every element of the US government, and as many state governments as possible, so that those officials who are inclined to oppose Trump simply do not have the (legal) power needed to actually stop him. They’ll be purging the leadership in every governmental office, replacing them with people who will be loyal to Trump. They’ll be doing everything they can to get rid of lower-level governmental workers they deem insufficiently loyal, as well. As I said above, these are things we’ve seen them already do, or at least attempt to do, in 2020. The big problem for them in 2020 was, they didn’t start doing this soon enough. They seemed to think they’d actually win the election, and were caught off guard. They won’t be making that mistake again. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/119 "2021-12-19T13:35:13Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Why would they/anyone think the dollar would be worth a thing after a hostile fascist takeover? Or that it’d leave behind a “stable” government? Or that there’d be businesses worth a damn operating, given an invincible-feeling Trump’s propensities to just take what he wants (like p\*\*\*\*\*\*)? The dollar has value as long as people keep paying taxes. You are no doubt familiar with the phrase “at least the trains run on time”, right? Fascist governments keep the essentials running, at least for people who are in their good graces. They have options that law-abiding governments don’t. Trump will have sense to at least placate those he needs to support him. He might nationalize Amazon and liquidate half of it to grease the palms of his cronies (and spite Jeff Bezos). All Trump needs is the institutions to go along with him. All he has to say to those people is “you definitely lose your entire government pension if you go against us.” All he needs is a critical mass of people to say “OK, this is the new normal, or at least something I can say is a reasonable temporary normal for the duration of the crisis.” Again, nobody’s going to say it’s permanent or unconstitutional. It will be sold as temporary extraordinary measures. Something you’ll hear for a long time is “well, Lincoln temporarily suspended habeas corpus, so Trump is allowed to do this.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113/120 "2021-12-19T17:04:46Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Trump will have sense You lost me here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/king-trump-how-would-reps-respond/956113.md?page=7)