# Kirk "Bananas" Cameron does it again
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 15, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717 "2014-11-15T19:01:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/41 "2014-11-17T20:59:49Z")
Well, on the plus side, [at least Kirk is cool with Halloween for similar nonsensical reasons,](http://www.christianpost.com/news/kirk-cameron-on-halloween-christians-should-have-the-biggest-party-on-the-block-128345/) which if nothing else is refreshingly progressive coming from a member of the community that spawned tales of mass Satanic orgies and sacrifices and ritual abuse happening every October 31st.
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### Author:  [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/42 "2014-11-17T21:21:50Z")
Looking forward to the sequel next year when he saves Festivus.
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/43 "2014-11-17T21:55:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I think this movie has more than enough fruitcake, thank you very much.
Please don’t compare Kirk Cameron to a fruitcake. I _like_ fruitcake.
No, really, I’m not kidding. I love fruitcake.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/44 "2014-11-17T22:00:25Z")
I wonder if Kirk’s pimp, Ray Comfort, is in this. That’s a relationship I’ve always thought was really weird (i.e. why did he have to go to New Zealand to get a Fundamentalist moron when we’ve got so many here at home).
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/45 "2014-11-17T22:17:18Z")
Good for Kirk Cameron it’s nice to see he’s getting our Lords message out to the sinners.
I make a fruitcake that is better than anything you can buy and everyone loves it.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/46 "2014-11-17T22:20:03Z")
I don’t know exactly what Kirk Cameron is going to say, and I’m not interested enough to watch and find out.
But while there are SOME popular Christmas traditions that are Nordic pagan in origin, a few of which even pre-date Christianity, the degree of pagan influence on Christianity and Christian rituals is often and widely overstated.
People often assume that Christians simply stole or copied existing pagan holidays and re-made them into something new. But pagans copied from Christians at least as often as vice versa. It’s more likely that the Romans created the feast of Sol Invictus to compete with Christmas than the other way around.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/47 "2014-11-17T22:47:55Z")
I honestly thought that other than Jehovah’s Witnesses and maybe a couple of other denominations, most Fundamentalists and conservative Christians already knew and accepted that Jesus wasn’t born on December 25 and that there were pagan festivals that time of year as well but that they were fine with that and celebrated Christmas anyway. Am I mistaken?
Likewise I thought that the crass ridiculous commercialism was something that atheists and Fundamentalists alike kind of agreed about, though Kirk apparently thinks that’s a good thing.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/48 "2014-11-17T23:26:44Z")
Am I the only one that thought **Jim’s Son** was joking?
I vaguely remember hearing stuff like this in some Christmas glurge. But even that didn’t act like that was the only meaning. I actually got more of a “repurposed” vibe out of it.
Even Jehovah’s Witnesses, which often seem to ignore history, know that this crap isn’t true. That’s why they don’t celebrate Christmas.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/49 "2014-11-18T01:38:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Quoth **astorian** :
>
> People often assume that Christians simply stole or copied existing pagan holidays and re-made them into something new. But pagans copied from Christians at least as often as vice versa. It’s more likely that the Romans created the feast of Sol Invictus to compete with Christmas than the other way around.
That would be time-traveling Romans, right?
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/50 "2014-11-18T03:03:43Z")
> [@Sampiro](#):
>
> I honestly thought that other than Jehovah’s Witnesses and maybe a couple of other denominations
JW’s as I understand it reject most holidays as pagan syncretisms except for the repurposed Passover, which they don’t keep on the “Easter” schedule of either the Western or Eastern Church either, but rather on the Jewish schedule.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/51 "2014-11-18T03:23:54Z")
I wonder if Kirk Cameron can see Narnia from his closet. I mean, that whole banana thing seemed a clue.
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/52 "2014-11-18T03:39:43Z")
Everyone remembers when Santa brought baby Jesus a gift-wrapped Christmas sweater
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/53 "2014-11-18T04:05:06Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Am I the only one that thought **Jim’s Son** was joking?
>
> I vaguely remember hearing stuff like this in some Christmas glurge. But even that didn’t act like that was the only meaning. I actually got more of a “repurposed” vibe out of it.
>
> Even Jehovah’s Witnesses, which often seem to ignore history, know that this crap isn’t true. That’s why they don’t celebrate Christmas.
No, I think \*\*bup \*\*does, too. I certainly thought **Jim’s Son** was joking, but after reading all the other responses I was starting to wonder if I’d missed something about **Jim’s Son** that led people to believe he was serious.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/54 "2014-11-18T04:48:49Z")
Poe’s Law in action.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/55 "2014-11-18T14:04:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> That would be time-traveling Romans, right?
Ah, so you think the Romans were celebrating the feast of Sol Invictus centuries before Jesus was born? Look it up- in reality, the emperor Aurelian created the cult of Sol Invictus in 274 AD, centuries AFTER Jesus’ death, when Christianity had already become a large movement in Rome.
Meaning that, while CHristians certainly HAVE embraced some pagan customs over the years, in this case, it seems equally (if not more likely) that the pagan Aurelian was trying to come up with a pagan feast to rival one that Christians were already celebrating.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/56 "2014-11-18T14:21:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> That would be time-traveling Romans, right?
Nope, Church documents show the Festival of the Nativity celebrated on December 25 earlier than pagan Roman documents speak of the Festival of Sol Invictus. Also, whether this is accurate of not, the Church had developed the timeline: The priest Zacharias was serving in the Temple during the Fall Festivals (late Sept-early Oct) when Gabriel announced he would father the Messiah’s forerunner (John the Baptist). Six months later (late March-early April), Gabriel announced to Mary that God chose her to bear the Messiah. John the Baptist is born late June-early July, and Jesus is born late Dec-early Jan.
The Church has allowed anti-traditionalist Protestants, secularists, & neo-Pagans to obscure its traditions to the point that Christians have bought into the idea that they are warmed over Paganism. Christmas Trees & Easter Eggs have no provable link to Pagan seasonal or fertility celebrations but seem to have emerged in the Middle Ages.
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### Author:  [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/57 "2014-11-18T15:02:38Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> Ah, so you think the Romans were celebrating the feast of Sol Invictus centuries before Jesus was born? Look it up- in reality, the emperor Aurelian created the cult of Sol Invictus in 274 AD, centuries AFTER Jesus’ death, when Christianity had already become a large movement in Rome.
>
> Meaning that, while CHristians certainly HAVE embraced some pagan customs over the years, in this case, it seems equally (if not more likely) that the pagan Aurelian was trying to come up with a pagan feast to rival one that Christians were already celebrating.
Saturnalia banquets are documented to have occured as early as 217 BCE. The earliest refrence to A Christmas celebvration around December 25 is 354 CE.
> **[Did the Romans Invent Christmas? | History Today](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/history-matters/did-romans-invent-christmas)**
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### Author:  [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/58 "2014-11-18T15:10:41Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#):
>
> Am I understanding this right? Is this movie trying to deny that Christianity co-opted the winter solstice imagery and traditions from non-Christian cultures? And that he is justifying this contention by co-opting the modern commercial/ secular holiday traditions?
It’s Kirk Cameron, remember?
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/59 "2014-11-18T15:23:09Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> Ah, so you think the Romans were celebrating the feast of Sol Invictus centuries before Jesus was born? Look it up- in reality, the emperor Aurelian created the cult of Sol Invictus in 274 AD, centuries AFTER Jesus’ death, when Christianity had already become a large movement in Rome.
>
> Meaning that, while CHristians certainly HAVE embraced some pagan customs over the years, in this case, it seems equally (if not more likely) that the pagan Aurelian was trying to come up with a pagan feast to rival one that Christians were already celebrating.
First, the cult of Sol existed before the cult of Sol Invictus (earliest archaeological mentions around the early 2nd century BC, but other sun gods were worshipped before and after). As for “Invictus”, the epiclesis seems to have appeared around the 3rd BC. Aurelian didn’t create the cult, he simply adjuncted it to the Imperial cult.
Second, December ~25 is not just the day of the feast of Sol Invictus. It’s the bloody equinox. Just chock full of mystical symbolism - longest night of the year, prelude to spring, darkest heart of winter but already the night is receding… If you think none of that was a) hugely celebrated before 274 AD and b) the very story of the birth of a messiah isn’t full of the exact same symbolic, oh so co-optable overtones you’re having a laugh, mate.
The Romans, the Germanic, Slavic and Scandinavian pagans, the Celts, the Persians all had their own take on this \*very \*special day centuries before the year 1.
Same goes for Easter “coincidentally” happening around the time of the big rites of Spring BTW. Hell, the very \*word \*is [pagan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre).
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/60 "2014-11-18T15:31:58Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Christmas Trees & Easter Eggs have no provable link to Pagan seasonal or fertility celebrations but seem to have emerged in the Middle Ages.
Yeah, I mean, what link could there \*possibly \*be between bunny rabbits, eggs and fertility celebrations ? :rolleyes: Clearly they’re Christian symbols of…um… well Christ had eggs on toast at the last supper and um…
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