# Kirk "Bananas" Cameron does it again
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 15, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717 "2014-11-15T19:01:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/61 "2014-11-18T15:52:56Z")
> [@CGav8r](#):
>
> The empty tin from a canned ham can also be used as a grenade in the annual “War on Christmas” (filled full of flaming egg nog).
> As foretold in the Gospels.
The key is there to open the tin,
the tin is there to keep the ham in.
> [@njtt](#):
>
> How far does he take this? What is the Christian significance of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer? Are “Santa Baby,” “Jinglebell Rock,” and “Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer” actually full of religious meaning?
And how about “Christmas At Ground Zero”?
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/62 "2014-11-18T16:01:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#):
>
> Second, December ~25 is not just the day of the feast of Sol Invictus. It’s the bloody equinox.
I think you mean ‘solstice,’ but other than that, I’m with you.
> [@](#):
>
> Same goes for Easter “coincidentally” happening around the time of the big rites of Spring BTW. Hell, the very \*word \*is [pagan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre).
So were the Israelites co-opting pagan celebrations by celebrating the Passover in early spring? Just asking.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/63 "2014-11-18T16:50:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> I think you mean ‘solstice,’ but other than that, I’m with you.
Right :smack:
> [@](#):
>
> So were the Israelites co-opting pagan celebrations by celebrating the Passover in early spring? Just asking.
I don’t believe so, no. Passover is it’s own thing AFAIK - but I’m really no scholar on Jewish customs or their archaeology :o.
That said, Jesus being purportedly crucified on or around Passover does tie in with Jewish symbolism (since Passover involved sacrificing a lamb for… Reasons ? Again, I know too little about Jewish mysticism & symbols :()
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/64 "2014-11-18T16:51:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> So were the Israelites co-opting pagan celebrations by celebrating the Passover in early spring?
Other way around. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/65 "2014-11-18T16:55:53Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#):
>
> Other way around. 🙂
Kirk will be around soon enough to explain to us how the Jews co-opted Passover from the Christians.
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/66 "2014-11-18T17:09:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> I think you mean ‘solstice,’ but other than that, I’m with you.So were the Israelites co-opting pagan celebrations by celebrating the Passover in early spring? Just asking.
As I was taught in a Jewish History class, Passover was originally an agricultural festival that was euhemerized into a celebration of the Exodus. I seem to recall being taught that it was a harvest festival, but that doesn’t seem right for spring. Still, the growing season in B.C.E. Palestine was surely different from the temperate US, so, maybe.
As to as early Christians picking December 25 for Christmas, that flies in the face of the Gospels, which mentions shepherds guarding their flocks. Which suggests that 3rd cent. Christians were sufficiently urban to not know that sheep don’t lamb in December.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/67 "2014-11-18T17:40:18Z")
I wouldn’t say that Jews co-opted the spring equinox celebrations for Passover. I would say rather that all nearly cultures celebrate the equinox, for more or less the same reasons, and that Passover is the form that the Jewish equinox celebrations took. It’s sort of a convergent evolution of holidays. By the same token, modern Americans have a major holiday coming up that’s a harvest festival, even though it doesn’t have any direct continuity to any other harvest festival.
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/68 "2014-11-18T17:42:44Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#):
>
> Am I understanding this right? Is this movie trying to deny that Christianity co-opted the winter solstice imagery and traditions from non-Christian cultures? And that he is justifying this contention by co-opting the modern commercial/ secular holiday traditions?
This is why I have to see it at this point. I know that is what I’ve read, but my brain will not process it until I see it.
> [@DrFidelius](#):
>
> I believe that Kirk Cameron is a deep-cover atheist, whose mission is to make Fundamentalist Christians look ever more ridiculous in order to drive moderate people to distance themselves from their faith.
He could be a parody artist at this point.
Colbert should have him on and support him fully.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/69 "2014-11-18T17:45:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> docufarce in he which inaccurately describes to his born-again brother-in-law Christian White
…and his Aryan Reggae Band?
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### Author:  [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/70 "2014-11-18T19:05:31Z")
Clearly shortly after founding America, Jesus opened the world’s first Department Store and commenced with the first Black Friday Sale.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/71 "2014-11-18T21:54:12Z")
Somebody needs to make a _Mike Seaver’s Saving Saturnalia_ spoof.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/72 "2014-11-18T22:43:45Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#):
>
> Somebody needs to make a _Mike Seaver’s Saving Saturnalia_ spoof.
My understanding is his _Growing Pains_ co-stars can’t stand him (not because he’s Christian but because he was so obnoxious). One of them would probably gladly do it.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/73 "2014-11-19T02:55:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#):
>
> Yeah, I mean, what link could there \*possibly \*be between bunny rabbits, eggs and fertility celebrations ? :rolleyes: Clearly they’re Christian symbols of…um… well Christ had eggs on toast at the last supper and um…
It was a Seder. Eggs on matzoh. But not scrambled eggs because when they are stirred they capture bubbles of air, which is enough like leavening to tick off some rabbis. I assume, based on zero knowledge.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/74 "2014-11-19T05:00:08Z")
To be fair, Santa IS based on an actual [Christian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas), so at least they’ve got that right. But since he’s now a saint, they probably don’t want anything to do with him, since Catholics aren’t Christian, according to Kirk and Co.
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Am I the only one that thought **Jim’s Son** was joking?
>
> I vaguely remember hearing stuff like this in some Christmas glurge. But even that didn’t act like that was the only meaning. I actually got more of a “repurposed” vibe out of it.
>
> Even Jehovah’s Witnesses, which often seem to ignore history, know that this crap isn’t true. That’s why they don’t celebrate Christmas.
I thought so for a second, but then I saw the name – do a search of his posts.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/75 "2014-11-19T05:43:57Z")
> [@Osiris\_the\_1st](#):
>
> Saturnalia banquets are documented to have occured as early as 217 BCE. The earliest refrence to A Christmas celebvration around December 25 is 354 CE.
>
> [Did the Romans Invent Christmas? | History Today](http://www.historytoday.com/matt-salusbury/did-romans-invent-christmas)
O. M. G.
I just looked up “when was Christmas first celebrated” on Google, and got to the wikipedia page on Christmas. Check out this medieval illustration of [the Nativity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hortus_Deliciarum,_Die_Geburt_Christi.JPG) which appears with the article.
That’s right, the cow and the ass are eating _around_ the Baby Jesus. :D:D:D
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### Author:  [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/76 "2014-11-19T06:05:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> That’s right, the cow and the ass are eating _around_ the Baby Jesus. :D:D:D
I guess that’s supposed to be Joseph on the far right? He looks pretty darn miserable…maybe because he lost his shoes, or he just got some really bad news from Maury.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/77 "2014-11-19T11:22:02Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#):
>
> I guess that’s supposed to be Joseph on the far right? He looks pretty darn miserable…maybe because he lost his shoes, or he just got some really bad news from Maury.
Maybe he just got the bill for Mary’s swank-ass bedsheet.
That’s one very special ox, too. o\_O
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### Author:  [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-bananas-cameron-does-it-again/704717/78 "2014-11-19T14:01:48Z")
Christmas Banana (Harmless, but might not be safe for work)
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evIHP6Ob7Es)
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