# Kirk Cameron proved that God exists. Take that, atheists! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 13, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954 "2007-05-13T19:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/81 "2007-05-15T05:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=Rigamarole] Obviously, man just wasn’t made to eat coconuts. 😃 [/QUOTE] But, but…the universe was created for humans. I guess coconuts (and pineapples and mangos) were a product of the Fall. They used to have pull tabs. This is also where nettles came from. (And I’ve clamoured though a feild of nettles so I’ve paid for my sins..) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/82 "2007-05-15T05:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Because, until a louder voice speaks up, he _does_ represent Christianity to a large portion of those that watched the program. [/QUOTE] Just as a couple of nerds using aliases because of “death threats” (based on their YouTube solicitation of videoed “blasphemy”) represent serious, rational atheists to a large portion of those that watched the program–an audience that never reaches [even four million](http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/2007/narrative_networktv_newsmagaines.asp?cat=8&media=5), or less than 1 1/3% of the U.S. population. Whatever _Nightline_ is pretending to do, it is clearly not presenting “prominent voices in their field” (which was _Nightline_’s pre-broadcast blurb). Where are Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, or the ghost of Sagan? Where are Wills, Miller, Van Inwagen, or even Falwell or Dobson? The silliness that is _Nightline_’s staged brawls between clueless irrelevance and flippant irrelevance has nothing to do with “theism” (or even “Christianity”) and “atheism” and everything to do with low grade theatre. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/83 "2007-05-15T07:16:10Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Either that or coconuts were made by Satan. [/QUOTE] In fact, I do believe that eating coconuts is an abomination unto the Lord. It says it in the Bible… somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/84 "2007-05-15T11:35:55Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Just as a couple of nerds using aliases because of “death threats” (based on their YouTube solicitation of videoed “blasphemy”) represent serious, rational atheists to a large portion of those that watched the program–an audience that never reaches [even four million](http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/2007/narrative_networktv_newsmagaines.asp?cat=8&media=5), or less than 1 1/3% of the U.S. population. Whatever _Nightline_ is pretending to do, it is clearly not presenting “prominent voices in their field” (which was _Nightline_’s pre-broadcast blurb). Where are Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, or the ghost of Sagan? Where are Wills, Miller, Van Inwagen, or even Falwell or Dobson? The silliness that is _Nightline_’s staged brawls between clueless irrelevance and flippant irrelevance has nothing to do with “theism” (or even “Christianity”) and “atheism” and everything to do with low grade theatre. [/QUOTE] How many of these pseudo-Christians have to be on the air before there is a problem worth doing something about, then? I’m not talking just about Kirk Cameron-Do I actually have to list all the faith healing, money-grubbing and reactionary men of the cloth that appear not only on Nightline, but on many other news and informatory programs, their own programs on broadcast and cable television, and even their own networks? Theirs is the voice of perceived Christianity to the media-watching masses. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/85 "2007-05-15T12:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] How many of these pseudo-Christians have to be on the air before there is a problem worth doing something about, then? I’m not talking just about Kirk Cameron-Do I actually have to list all the faith healing, money-grubbing and reactionary men of the cloth that appear not only on Nightline, but on many other news and informatory programs, their own programs on broadcast and cable television, and even their own networks? Theirs is the voice of perceived Christianity to the media-watching masses. [/QUOTE] It is not a problem. No one perceives Kirk Cameron to be the “voice of Christianity” except the loons who agree with him and, perhaps, a few atheists, and I’m not too sure about the atheists. He’s a simplistic moron (or one helluva practical joker) who hasn’t the foggiest notion of the fundamental tenets of the religion he professes. And he’s even less a "threat’ to Christianity than the jihadists are to Islam because he’s not a nihilistic thug willing to die for his alleged belirfs. I perceive no threat to my First Amendment freedom by Cameron exercising his First Amendment freedom. I will not become activist over something that doesn’t concern me. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/86 "2007-05-15T12:34:33Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] But, but…the universe was created for humans. I guess coconuts (and pineapples and mangos) were a product of the Fall. They used to have pull tabs. This is also where nettles came from. (And I’ve clamoured though a feild of nettles so I’ve paid for my sins..) [/QUOTE] All very well clamouring, but I bet you got stung just as much as if you’d kept your mouth shut. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/87 "2007-05-15T12:57:12Z")
[QUOTE=Rigamarole] In fact, I do believe that eating coconuts is an abomination unto the Lord. It says it in the Bible… somewhere. [/QUOTE] Wow, so the restaurant I ate at the other day, whose menu advertised their German Chocolate cake as being “sinful”…that wasn’t just clever marketing? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/88 "2007-05-15T13:47:01Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] It is not a problem. No one perceives Kirk Cameron to be the “voice of Christianity” except the loons who agree with him and, perhaps, a few atheists, and I’m not too sure about the atheists. He’s a simplistic moron (or one helluva practical joker) who hasn’t the foggiest notion of the fundamental tenets of the religion he professes. And he’s even less a "threat’ to Christianity than the jihadists are to Islam because he’s not a nihilistic thug willing to die for his alleged belirfs. I perceive no threat to my First Amendment freedom by Cameron exercising his First Amendment freedom. I will not become activist over something that doesn’t concern me. [/QUOTE] To those that do not already belong to the mainstream of Christianity, he _is_ one of the “voices of Christianity” until someone says otherwise. This is the way advertising works, and advertising _does_ work-for proof, just look at the millions of people who roll up leaves in paper, light it on fire and inhale. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/89 "2007-05-15T13:50:47Z")
I’ve got a lovely bunch of coconuts. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/90 "2007-05-15T14:32:33Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] How many of these pseudo-Christians have to be on the air before there is a problem worth doing something about, then? I’m not talking just about Kirk Cameron-Do I actually have to list all the faith healing, money-grubbing and reactionary men of the cloth that appear not only on Nightline, but on many other news and informatory programs, their own programs on broadcast and cable television, and even their own networks? Theirs is the voice of perceived Christianity to the media-watching masses. [/QUOTE] Who are these media-watching masses? The assumption in your question is that there is some vast gathering of people unacquainted with Christianity with a _tabula rasa_ approach to religion that is going to be swayed in their opinions regarding Christianity based on what they see on TV. The reality is that the overwhelming numbers of people who are going to see those shows are already within the supergroup known as “Christians” and they already see the Phelpses, the Laws, the Falwells, the Camerons, the Schillers, the Grahams (_filius et pater_), the Spongs, the Egans, the Bernardins, the Robinsons, and all the rest as either “one of us” or “not one of us.” As large and predominant as Christianity is in North America, the majority of Christians see it as the presumptive situation for anyone they will encounter and they do not look at the “Christian” label, but at the sub-heading that says “Baptist,” “Catholic,” “A/G,” “Methodist,” or whatever. I know one or two people who look on Schiller as an example of what it means to be Christian (and get rich). Most of the people I know think he is a flake. I know several people who consider Falwell an outspoken pastor, although the majority of people I know consider him to be a small-time crank with accidental access to the media. I know a lot of people who hold Billy Graham in high regard, (some of whom feel he is sincere but misguided). Everyone with whom I have discussed his kid, Franklin, considers him a nasty twit. (Clearly I do not move in those circles that think Franklin to be a great prophet.) (Note, also, that I would not characterize Cameron (or Falwell or Dobson or others) as “pseudo” Christians. They are Christians with whom I disagree on many matters of theology, politics, science, and other issues. When some of them made efforts to impose their beliefs on society–Ohio’s anti-Same-Sex-Union amendment or the attempt to sneak “Intelligent Design” into Ohio schools–I have actively opposed them, vocally and financially. Sometimes I have been on the winning side, sometimes not. However, I see no reason to attack an idiot on the Ohio school board for being Christian when all of her colleagues are also Christian. It makes more sense to oppose her on the grounds that she is undermining scientific education, regardless of her religious beliefs.) ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/91 "2007-05-15T14:55:54Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] :dubious: Then explain coconuts. [/QUOTE] Heck, what about even oranges – you know, if you don’t have long enough fingernails and before you get that first piece of peel loose? That alone proves there’s no good. :o I’m wondering if reading the entire bible ever actually unconvinced anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/92 "2007-05-15T15:24:49Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] To those that do not already belong to the mainstream of Christianity, he _is_ one of the “voices of Christianity” until someone says otherwise. This is the way advertising works, and advertising _does_ work-for proof, just look at the millions of people who roll up leaves in paper, light it on fire and inhale. [/QUOTE] Well, if Kirk Cameron’s antics somehow threaten your identity as a Christian or otherwise endanger your faith, then yes, you probably should publicly disown his brand of lunacy. He doesn’t threaten my Christian identity, and my regained faith is pretty much unshakable this time around, so he just isn’t at all significant to me. But once you mount the pulpit to denounce Cameron, you’d better be willing to take on the Mormons, the Jehova’s Witnesses and the Southern Baptists. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/93 "2007-05-15T16:01:13Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] I’ve got a lovely bunch of coconuts. [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/94 "2007-05-16T00:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Well, if Kirk Cameron’s antics somehow threaten your identity as a Christian or otherwise endanger your faith, then yes, you probably should publicly disown his brand of lunacy. He doesn’t threaten my Christian identity, and my regained faith is pretty much unshakable this time around, so he just isn’t at all significant to me. But once you mount the pulpit to denounce Cameron, you’d better be willing to take on the Mormons, the Jehova’s Witnesses and the Southern Baptists. [/QUOTE] I’m not a Christian. I’m just an atheist that thinks mainstream Christianity is being slandered every time people like Cameron, Robertson, Popoff and the scores of others like them hold the airwaves hostage. But, hey, they self-identify as Christians, so I guess they get a free pass. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/95 "2007-05-16T02:21:39Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Wow, so the restaurant I ate at the other day, whose menu advertised their German Chocolate cake as being “sinful”…that wasn’t just clever marketing? :eek: [/QUOTE] No sir or ma’am, however I trust you did not partake? Even if you did, don’t worry, as Jesus forgives all sins - just flog yourself 50 times and we’ll call it even. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/96 "2007-05-16T02:49:06Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I’m not a Christian. [/QUOTE] Then it’s none of your concern. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/97 "2007-05-16T03:25:13Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Then it’s none of your concern. [/QUOTE] And apparently, it’s none of yours. Pity. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/98 "2007-05-16T04:06:55Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] Argh, my logical capabilities! They melt before the prowess of the crocoduck! [/QUOTE] But it’s nowhere near as beautiful as the proud, majestic… CROCOSTIMPY! On the topic of the thread… I can only shake my head in disbelief. What an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/99 "2007-05-16T05:35:12Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Well, obviously I have been able to achieve some higher level of being that resists being sucked into the vortex of emotions that swirl around my membership in various (vague and overlarge) groups. [/quote] Congratulations! Perhaps you hit on the nirvana that \*\*Quiddity Glomfuster \*\*talked about in her punctuality thread. > [@tomndebb](#): > > You have jumped from experiencing embarrassment or shame to acting on the impulse of caring. I have not previously equated the emotion with the will or action and I have advanced no theories–nor am I about to begin to do so now. Your comment, here, seems a bit irrelevant either to your initial question or to my response. Note that you initially asked how **I** felt about Mr. Cameron and I have responded throughout as to how I see the world, voicing no opinion regarding how others should view the world or respond. If you had started and stopped your first post with the first sentence of this one, I would not have gone farther either. But you went on to either explain, justify or rationalize your behavior or alternatively to try to convince me that this behavior was somehow typical of the behavior that others have in groups. When each analogy either failed or backfired, you just added more. In this exchange, you started with telling me how large the group of Christians are and how that made it somehow not possible for you to feel any embarrassment over the actions of the group due to the sheer numbers involved and how far removed that was from your experience. So I noted that you were making a monkey sphere comparison. Either that, or your whole recounting of the size of the Christian group was just totally non sequitur. Since I assumed it had some logical connection to the issue we were discussing, I assumed that it must be connected to the issue of your lack of embarrassment based on how far removed you feel to the people who are making the statements with which you disagree. > [@tomndebb](#): > > How about sports teams and whether you are proud or ashamed of their actions? I can choose to cheer for a bunch of mercenaries who happen to engage in athletic competitions in the name of a large city near which i live (although I only rarely do), but I don’t buy into the notion of being proud or ashamed of them, either. I’ve never seen a team get together in the locker room and announce that they are going to hire (and then rough up) a group of hookers or proclaim that they are going to trash a hotel or bar, yet it happens. Unless you live in Green Bay, WI, I don’t see much point in taking pride or accepting shame for the actions of some guys hired to play sports. So here’s another example of where you seem to be trying to make some form of argumentation. If you were just answering my question of how _you_ feel, I’m not sure how an open-ended question addressed ostensibly to me (unless you meant the general you) is answering that question. It is to these open-ended questions that I’ve been responding to. And it is these open-ended questions which either fail as analogies or work against your argument in each of the previous cases. I won’t comment on this one since you don’t seem to see this as an argument. Perhaps it’s just a rhetorical device that seems obvious to you but is completely contrary to me. I was also noting in response to these open-ended questions or rhetorical devices that I found them to be logically internally inconsistent. You evidently did not agree or were and continue to be unaware of the inconsistencies. > [@tomndebb](#): > > And? Who elected him? Who authorized him to speak for anyone other than the Fundamentalist church that happens to pay him to be a spokesperson for them? There is no law that prohibits him from claiming to speak for Christians–Christianity has no legally binding logo, trademark, or copyright. The word is in the public domain and he is free to abuse it in any manner he so chooses. When someone from a group stands to represent others, no one generally elects them. They do so on their own. In fact, it is because they’ve elected themselves without the others’ consent is the very reason one would think that those in the group that object would stand up to do so. And yes, they’re free to abuse the tenets of Christianity in any way they choose. Oddly, though, I’ve seen you say that you take it upon yourself when you see someone wrongly claim something about your interpretation of your religion here that you feel that fighting ignorance requires you to respond to the alleged inaccuracy. It’s interesting that you don’t feel the need to fight similar ignorance in the broader context off this message board. > [@tomndebb](#): > > And you have identified an area of personal expression where my attitudes differ from those of some other people. > > You asked a question that I answered. Now you seem to be arguing that I should have answered differently. Sorry. My feelings are those I have expressed and I see no reason to go out and attempt to bring my feelings or attitudes in line wiith what you would wish. And I have NO idea why you would wish that my attitrude was different, how it would change things in the world, or why it would matter, in any case. I have no such wish that your attitude were different. In fact, from my viewpoint as a non-Christian, your attitude that people misrepresenting Christianity get a free pass just confirms my view that the rules of logic and the rules that govern other parts of most people’s lives get special dispensation by _some_ Christians such as yourself in the areas of Christianity. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, in this thread, nearly all the Christians that I have noticed have mocked him pretty thoroughly. > > The important point (from what I guess is your perspective) is that he does not speak “for Christians” and the overwhelming number of us recognize that he does not speak “for Christians” any more than William Luther Pierce/Andrew Macdonald “spoke for” whites in the U.S. > Any nutter can claim that he represents anything he wants. Until I support him, he does not represent me. There is no reason to wander around cataloging all the Camerons, Falwells, Robertsons, Wildmons, Dobsons, Donohues, Bruskewitzes, _ad nauseam_ and racing out twice a week to deny that they are represenrtative of anything I believe when anyone who has more awareness of the world than the average two-year-old recognizes that these people are only representing a tiny minority of even the groups they purport to represent and that running around trying to deny them would give them more exposure and make more people think that they actually had a serious following. > Every time that Jack Chick puts out another cartoon, there is a **Pit** thread analyzing and condemning it, yet in the real world, not one person in a thousand knows the name Jack Chick and barely one in a thousand has ever bothered to pay any attention to his scribblings much less bothering to discover who he is (and then, usually to laugh). Oddly, you denigrate the intelligence of those that believe these people who are broadcast on national television. And yet you have stated elsewhere that because your religion doesn’t teach creationism, the teachings of creationism must come from Protestant neighbors or televangelists. If the teaching of creationism is so widespread from people watching the media despite it not being an accepted religious belief of your religion, doesn’t it stand to reason that more than two-year olds are getting some of their religious beliefs from the media? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954/100 "2007-05-16T05:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Well, if Kirk Cameron’s antics somehow threaten your identity as a Christian or otherwise endanger your faith, then yes, you probably should publicly disown his brand of lunacy. He doesn’t threaten my Christian identity, and my regained faith is pretty much unshakable this time around, so he just isn’t at all significant to me. But once you mount the pulpit to denounce Cameron, you’d better be willing to take on the Mormons, the Jehova’s Witnesses and the Southern Baptists. [/QUOTE] I find this very puzzling because the very reason you claimed you went back to Christianity was because of one person or group of people led by Richard Dawkins which you documented in [this thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=413669) > [@Sunrazor on 3/23/07](#): > > That does it, I’m going back to church. Easter Sunday, I think. That’s a good time for resurrecting one’s spirituality. It’ll be the local Episcopal Church, with which I have so much history. I was back in the old pile of bricks a few weeks ago at my mother’s funeral – didn’t realize how much I miss the people, the music, the liturgy. But none of that is enough to compel me back into the pew. > > This is. It’s a very long thread, but read the first page or two and you’ll see that there are Dawkinsites out there whose mission it is to destroy religion. While I’m not a devout Christian, neither do I want to see these venerable old institutions destroyed, and the people who need them bereft of spiritual leadership. > > I tried to sit on the fence, being a moderate agnostic/atheist/whatever who respected religion, tolerated the zealots and worked wherever possible to promote logic, reason and fellowship. But the challenges in the Dawkins thread leave me no choice – you are either with them or against them. And if I’m going to be against them, I’d may as well go all the way. So it seems puzzling to me that you don’t think that one person and a bunch of his followers could lead others away from the faith as one person and his followers lead you to yours. And if these people could lead others away from the faith, is this not a concern to those who hold it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-proved-that-god-exists-take-that-atheists/403954.md?page=6)