# Kirk Cameron schools Stephen Hawking in science **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818 "2011-05-22T21:45:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![pikey\_pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pikey\_pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikey_pete)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/261 "2011-05-25T22:55:44Z")
the big problem I have is that Cameron is assuming that a Judeo/Christian God created everything. What about all the other creation myths out there? Its a nice example of hubris to state categorically that your God created everything. Especially when the first line of Genesis when translated from Hebrew states that “In the beginning Gods created the Heavens and the Earth.” Elohim is the plural of Elohi. So how can you say which god created it all? Maybe it was Odin, or Grandfather Sky, or Taranis. hell, looking at the world around us right now, if a god did create the universe, im going to have to put my money either on Loki or Coyote. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/262 "2011-05-25T22:58:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hmmm. I wonder what the stars _do_ say, if you read them in cuneiform-ese… “We apologize for the inconvenience.” ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/263 "2011-05-25T23:59:42Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > “We apologize for the inconvenience.” I think… I feel good about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/264 "2011-05-26T01:10:19Z")
“Share and Enjoy”. Except when they’ve half set, when they read “Go Stick Your Head In A Pig”. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/265 "2011-05-26T02:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] If we’re more than the operations of our brain, why can changes in behavior happen because of brain damage or drugs? Aside from that, we have no evidence of anything more. So the evidence we do have suggests we’re mechanical. [/QUOTE] You know, this more than anything really nuked my belief in a soul. I blame the Oliver Sacks books I read in the 80’s. If a person could change so FUNDAMENTALLY because of a brain problem, where’s the continuity of self/soul? Pretty much put the nail in the coffin of my belief in an existence that wasn’t meat-based. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/266 "2011-05-26T03:09:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > hmmm. I wonder what the stars _do_ say, if you read them in cuneiform-ese… “slower traffic keep right” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/267 "2011-05-26T08:53:04Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > “We apologize for the inconvenience.” > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > “Share and Enjoy”. Except when they’ve half set, when they read “Go Stick Your Head In A Pig”. Favorite. Forum. EVER. 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/268 "2011-05-26T14:48:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hmmm. I wonder what the stars _do_ say, if you read them in cuneiform-ese… Since the stars’ position predates written language, any message that could be construed would be dismissible due to the possibility that the language itself was constructed to create a meaning where none had previously existed. In order to read the message in the stars you either need to apply a system based on absolute mathematical values, or else find a language that predates the stars. Ryleh, hasn’t really appeared in several decades (another victim og global warming,) and the Japanese have fished out the Old Ones, so whatever message is up there is probably lost forever. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/269 "2011-05-26T15:56:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > In order to read the message in the stars you either need to apply a system based on absolute mathematical values, or else find a language that predates the stars. Pretty sure I might know a shortcut. Convincing others of what you’ve seen, though, remains a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/270 "2011-05-26T16:16:29Z")
Mescaline is cheating. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/271 "2011-05-26T16:24:09Z")
What about getting crib notes from a Mad Arab? ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/272 "2011-05-26T16:28:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What about getting crib notes from a Mad Arab? He’s not mad, he just gets these headaches… ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/273 "2011-05-27T03:33:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Since the stars’ position predates written language, any message that could be construed would be dismissible due to the possibility that the language itself was constructed to create a meaning where none had previously existed. > > In order to read the message in the stars you either need to apply a system based on absolute mathematical values, or else find a language that predates the stars. Ryleh, hasn’t really appeared in several decades (another victim og global warming,) and the Japanese have fished out the Old Ones, so whatever message is up there is probably lost forever. Do any mathematical clues work in all base systems? Like, we could take the fibonacci system as a sign… but that wouldn’t work unless we were in base-10. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/274 "2011-05-27T03:55:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hmmm. I wonder what the stars _do_ say, if you read them in cuneiform-ese… DON’T TRUST ELAMITES Sadly, the message got through too late. ---
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/275 "2011-05-27T04:33:03Z")
I’m just going to leave this here: [http://www.stonemakerargument.com/1.html](http://www.stonemakerargument.com/1.html) I don’t think it’s going to help anyone, but what they hey? I like the comics… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/276 "2011-05-27T12:35:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Could happen, couldn’t it ? Smash enough penny jars, I’m sure you’ll get there eventually (damn you, now I’m trying to figure out how to code a penny-jar dropping simulation 🙂 ) > > I’m still not seeing how different it is from saying “1,2,3,4,5,6 is not random”. Yes, your star system would be an impressive coincidence. It would not be any more evidence for a creator than [the banana](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A). I think I must be communicating poorly. Looking in the sky as it is today and finding amidst the complex pattern of stars some pattern that is familiar to you isn’t convincing. But what I was talking about is twelve near photographic representations as the only things in the sky. No background stars. Nothing else but a picture of a human face, a fetus, a human hand and so on. Yes, given enough chances it’s possible, but there would be far more people convinced of the universe’s design than there is today if it were there. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/277 "2011-05-27T13:06:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yes, given enough chances it’s possible, but there would be far more people convinced of the universe’s design than there is today if it were there. And my point is they’d most likely be just as wrong as the banana guy. No matter how complex or unique you want to make your proposed pattern, it can be the result of random chance, with exactly the same odds as every \*other \*pattern barring the creation of the pattern requiring to break the laws of physics. The latter case \*could \*be more convincing proof of the existence of a god… or more likely, that our understanding of the laws of physics is not quite right. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/278 "2011-05-27T13:18:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And my point is they’d most likely be just as wrong as the banana guy. > No matter how complex or unique you want to make your proposed pattern, it can be the result of random chance, with exactly the same odds as every \*other \*pattern barring the creation of the pattern requiring to break the laws of physics. > The latter case \*could \*be more convincing proof of the existence of a god… or more likely, that our understanding of the laws of physics is not quite right. I don’t think it would have the same odds. Having a mountain naturally form 12 highly detailed knights in a circle might be possible due to random weathering, but it is so unlikely that you wouldn’t expect it to happen in the universe. All the protons in your left shoe could decay right now, at the same time, but it isn’t very likely. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/279 "2011-05-27T14:00:41Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Do any mathematical clues work in all base systems? Like, we could take the fibonacci system as a sign… but that wouldn’t work unless we were in base-10. I always use binary when i m trying to communicate across billions of years with unimaginable aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/280 "2011-05-27T14:03:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think it would have the same odds Kobal is right. Every possible pattern has the same odds. You can’t infer evidence for intent based merely on the pattern of stars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818.md?page=15)