# Kirk Cameron schools Stephen Hawking in science **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818 "2011-05-22T21:45:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/321 "2011-05-31T17:54:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, but the point is: why are you then using him in your latest posts to show that gods or knights on mountains exist then? Because I’m a really big fan of him and I’ve read ABHOT, and TGD. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/322 "2011-05-31T17:58:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Because I’m a really big fan of him and I’ve read ABHOT, and TGD. So then you agree with Hawkins that there is no god here? Or are you trying to ignore that Hawkins said the opposite of what you are trying to show in this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/323 "2011-05-31T18:02:21Z")
Lobo: No it would not be evidence for a created universe for two reasons: you are assuming a creator would have a desire to place statistical unlikelihood’s into a universe, and if your Knights actually did exist, say, in Peru, and were discovered tomorrow, random chance is still a simpler and more likely expectation then intentional divine creation. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/324 "2011-05-31T18:21:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So then you agree with Hawkins that there is no god here? Or are you trying to ignore that Hawkins said the opposite of what you are trying to show in this discussion? That’s both inaccurate and a false dilemma. I think that Hawking’s explanation for the existence of the universe is actually worse than positing a god/creator. Hawkings also said “philosophy is dead” and that signs now explains what philosophy was supposed to, but I think that’s also wrong. Statuslly thinking I believe that the best explanation for the universe you and inhabit is as follows: If we posit a time in the future where it is possible to create a computer simulation so good that it is indistinguishable from reality, and that inhabitants of the future will be interested in playing such simulations, then, statistically there are many simulations but only one we reality. Therefore, we most likely inhabit a simulation, have no access to reality and therefore cannot profitably contemplate it’s nature. That seems to be the most likely explanation. We are in a created, complete with a creator God. There might even be an Afterlife, especially if you are not an NPC. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/325 "2011-05-31T18:23:10Z")
Posting frm an iPhone is fucking hard ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/326 "2011-05-31T18:34:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think that Hawking’s explanation for the existence of the universe is actually worse than positing a god/creator. Do you honestly think that you understand something about the physics that Hawking does not? Do you honestly believe you’ve spotted a weakness that completely escaped him? If you don’t understand something Hawking has said (and you are not alone), try asking somebody who has a decent graps of it (that person is not me, by the way). Just declaring that you’ve spotted a weakness is ludicrous. Do tell us more about you wizard theory, though. Who made the wizard, and where is he now? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/327 "2011-05-31T18:46:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you honestly think that you understand something about the physics that Hawking does not? Do you honestly believe you’ve spotted a weakness that completely escaped him? > > If you don’t understand something Hawking has said (and you are not alone), try asking somebody who has a decent graps of it (that person is not me, by the way). Just declaring that you’ve spotted a weakness is ludicrous. > > Do tell us more about you wizard theory, though. Who made the wizard, and where is he now? Let’s not forget that Scylla is a fucking idiot. Aside from actual stupidity, where he isn’t able to reason worth a shit, he’s also horribly ignorant. For instance, Scylla thinks that science never says _I don’t know_: > [@Scylla](#): > > No. It’s so fucking bad. I’ll give you another example. > I am science. I am staring at an electric fence. A guy walks up to me and says “Hey, science. is that fence on?” > > I say “Nope. Definitely not.” > > The guy says “Oh, cool,” and grabs the fence. We learn something from what happens next. In this case a bad answer is just as good as a good answer. We find something out either way. > If, on the other hand, as science, I say “I don’t know,” to the electric fence question than the guy doesn’t grab the fence and we just stand there not knowing, right? > “I don’t know” is a bullshit, stupid answer. It is not scientist. > > Science’s motto is “Often wrong. Seldom in doubt.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/328 "2011-05-31T18:52:23Z")
Yes, Lobo, but _this time he’s right_. \>.\> ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/329 "2011-05-31T18:53:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes, Lobo, but _this time he’s right_. \>.\> I suppose a dipshit clock is right twice a day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/330 "2011-05-31T18:57:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you honestly think that you understand something about the physics that Hawking does not? Do you honestly believe you’ve spotted a weakness that completely escaped him? > > If you don’t understand something Hawking has said (and you are not alone), try asking somebody who has a decent graps of it (that person is not me, by the way). Just declaring that you’ve spotted a weakness is ludicrous. > > Do tell us more about you wizard theory, though. Who made the wizard, and where is he now? That’s such a textbook example of the classical fallacy of the argument from authority that it’s self refuting. But yeah, that’s why I was cringing. Still, unlike you, I’m not going to automatically believe something that doesn’t seem to make sense just because it comes from an authority. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/331 "2011-05-31T19:11:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Let’s not forget that Scylla is a fucking idiot. Aside from actual stupidity, where he isn’t able to reason worth a shit, he’s also horribly ignorant. For instance, Scylla thinks that science never says _I don’t know_: Yeah, and this is like a fucking synopsis of Chapter 2 of TGD, you fucking moron. You’re debating theories you haven’t bothered to read. Why is this so ficking shocking to you? Do you think science is generally right? Science’s track record for getting the answer right has sucked donkey dick. The only thing that it has going for it is that it sucks a little bit less than anything else. But no, science has not been particularly good at admitting ignorance ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/332 "2011-05-31T19:14:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you honestly think that you understand something about the physics that Hawking does not? Do you honestly believe you’ve spotted a weakness that completely escaped him? > > If you don’t understand something Hawking has said (and you are not alone), try asking somebody who has a decent graps of it (that person is not me, by the way). Just declaring that you’ve spotted a weakness is ludicrous. > > Do tell us more about you wizard theory, though. Who made the wizard, and where is he now? What wizard theory? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/333 "2011-05-31T19:15:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That’s such a textbook example of the classical fallacy of the argument from authority that it’s self refuting. > > But yeah, that’s why I was cringing. Still, unlike you, I’m not going to automatically believe something that doesn’t seem to make sense just because it comes from an authority. I think you are mistaken on what the argument from authority means, as we are talking about how Hawkins looks at the physics involved, he is a relevant authority, when the authority is an expert of something else rather than the issue at hand then it is a fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/334 "2011-05-31T19:18:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yeah, and this is like a fucking synopsis of Chapter 2 of TGD, you fucking moron. You’re debating theories you haven’t bothered to read. Why is this so ficking shocking to you? Do you think science is generally right? > > Science’s track record for getting the answer right has sucked donkey dick. > > The only thing that it has going for it is that it sucks a little bit less than anything else. But no, science has not been particularly good at admitting ignorance Lol. Keep fucking that chicken, dipshit. KFTC. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/335 "2011-05-31T19:20:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Science’s track record for getting the answer right has sucked donkey dick. > > The only thing that it has going for it is that it sucks a little bit less than anything else. But no, science has not been particularly good at admitting ignorance > [@Lobohan](#): > > I suppose a dipshit clock is right twice a day. 😃 …And now I remember what you mean by that. :V ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/336 "2011-05-31T19:20:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I suppose a dipshit clock is right twice a day. 😃 Yet strangely, it appears that I have read the books and am familiar with material that is bring discussed, and you have not. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/337 "2011-05-31T19:23:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think you are mistaken on what the argument from authority means, as we are talking about how Hawkins looks at the physics involved, he is a relevant authority, when the authority is an expert of something else rather than the issue at hand then it is a fallacy. My understanding of the argument from authority fallacy is that it occurs when you give credence to an argument based on who is making it rather than by it’s own merits. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/338 "2011-05-31T19:26:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yet strangely, it appears that I have read the books… Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it. [/afcw] ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/339 "2011-05-31T19:26:41Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …And now I remember what you mean by that. :V That’s not really a counterargument to my statement. If you think I am mistaken you should argue why. If you simply make snide comments absent content than I think your posts are dismissible. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818/340 "2011-05-31T19:31:35Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That’s such a textbook example of the classical fallacy of the argument from authority that it’s self refuting. No, it’s just Occam’s Razor. What’s more likely, that **Scylla** doesn’t understand what Hawking is saying, or that **Scyllas** has such a phenomenal mind that he was able to spot a mistake in Hawking’s hypothesis despite a total lack of training in physics? If you disputed a medical doctor’s diagnosis without any understanding of medical science, it would not be an appeal to authority to assume that you were the one was making a mistake. > [@](#): > > Still, unlike you, I’m not going to automatically believe something that doesn’t seem to make sense just because it comes from an authority. Note that I did not say I agreed or disagreed with Hawking’s hypotheis. Unlike you, I can admit that I don’t understand it well enough to render an informed opinion about it. I do know that it’s highly unlkely that you’ve spotted any kind of basic scientific weakness in it, though. If it “doesn’t seem to make sense” to you, then why don’t you try having somebody explain it to you before you assume you’re some kind of genius who spotted a flaw. And not for nothing, but don’t you think the Bible is authoritative? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirk-cameron-schools-stephen-hawking-in-science/582818.md?page=18)