# Kirk's most blatant obliterations of the Prime Directive **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782 "2017-07-21T04:41:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/41 "2017-07-25T17:00:14Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > According to the final scene, Kirk’s plan was that “our cut” would be locally invested, nudging the Iotians away from warlordism and toward cooperation since they’d need to manage the money for the “big boss” while not letting any of the others gain an undue advantage from it. Whether it would work is another question, of course. > > I recall a bit from the 80s DC _Star Trek_ comics, where Oxmyx was brought in as a witness to an (arguably long-overdue) inquiry into Kirk’s disrespect for the Prime Directive. His “boys” had brought briefcases full of money containing the “_personal_ cut” he assumed Kirk was expecting. At the end of that scene, somebody asked Kirk what to do with the cash; he told them to “burn it”. :o I remember that comic. Pretty much **everyone** whom Kirk had affected by his meddling was there to testify, kind of like the finale to _ **Seinfeld** _. IIRC, Anon-7 testified that after Kirk & Co. left, a full-scale war \*did \*break out between Eminiar and Vendikar, and both civilizations were all but destroyed. As for the Iotians, I’d’ve loved to have seen their reaction when the Feds tried to impose strict gun control on them. Cooperation between thugs; yeah, right! ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/42 "2017-07-25T19:05:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The time traveling police of _Voyager_ said of Kirk, “The man was a menace!” Dulmer and Lucsly were in Deep Space Nine, not Voyager. And even they thought Kirk was cool ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/43 "2017-07-25T19:14:49Z")
Just saw “The Cloud Minders” this weekend. Kirk actually kidnaps their leader and holds them hostage to make a point about equality (or something like that). This is after he gives the commoners valuable information that says their job is killing them (commoners) to make the aristocracy stronger. Of course, The Federation has a dog in this fight so maybe the prime directive becomes the secondary directive in cases like this. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/44 "2017-07-25T19:19:45Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Dulmer and Lucsly were in Deep Space Nine, not Voyager. And even they thought Kirk was cool I beg to differ. In one episode, the Temporal Police drafted Seven of Nine so she could correct a disturbance in the timeline. I believe they were in other episodes of \*\*\*Voyager \*\*\*as well, but that’s the one that sticks in my memory. (The names of the officers I don’t remember, unfortunately.) ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/45 "2017-07-25T19:25:21Z")
The Prime Directive applies to to pre-warp civilizations. The Ardanans (The Cloud Minders) were not only warp-capable, they were a member of the Federation. Torture is a Federation no-no. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/46 "2017-07-25T19:30:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I beg to differ. In one episode, the Temporal Police drafted Seven of Nine so she could correct a disturbance in the timeline. I believe they were in other episodes of \*\*\*Voyager \*\*\*as well, but that’s the one that sticks in my memory. (The names of the officers I don’t remember, unfortunately.) The quote I mention is in [Deep Space Nine.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708655/quotes) Dulmur: Be specific, Captain, which Enterprise? There’ve been five. Lucsly: Six. Captain Sisko: This was the first Enterprise - Constitution-class. Dulmur: His ship! Lucsly: James T. Kirk. Captain Sisko: The one and only! Lucsly: Seventeen separate temporal violations; the biggest file on record. Dulmur: The man was a menace. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/47 "2017-07-25T19:30:51Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Just saw “The Cloud Minders” this weekend. Kirk actually kidnaps their leader and holds them hostage to make a point about equality (or something like that). This is after he gives the commoners valuable information that says their job is killing them (commoners) to make the aristocracy stronger. > > Of course, The Federation has a dog in this fight so maybe the prime directive becomes the secondary directive in cases like this. David Gerrold, who wrote the story but not the teleplay, says that in his version, Kirk didn’t give a shit about social justice for the Trogs; he just wanted the supply of whatever mineral they were mining to keep flowing. So he made both sides sit down and start negotiating at phaserpoint. That’s one episode I really, \*really \*would’ve liked to see! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/48 "2017-07-25T19:41:35Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > So he made both sides sit down and start negotiating at phaserpoint. While breathing some poison mine gas that turned everyone into a rabid dog, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/49 "2017-07-25T19:43:19Z")
The one that always pissed me off was Requiem for Methuselah. Kirk should have been criminally charged for his behavior. First he threatens force to stay on a planet where he’s not wanted. Flint reluctantly agreed to help. Kirk is given two hours to obtain a mineral Ryetalyn. It’s needed on the ship to cure Rigellian Fever. Flint’s robots obtain and process the ore. Kirk is there for two lousy hours and gets the hots for the only woman on the planet. Even claims to be in love with her! He ends up destroying Rayna Kapec. She was an Android that shuts down from intense emotion. Kirk totally screws up Flint’s aka Leonardo’s life. Kills his only companion and leaves. Talk about abusing the Prime Directive ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/50 "2017-07-25T20:06:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > While breathing some poison mine gas that turned everyone into a rabid dog, as I recall. I don’t think that happened in the original story. In the teleplay, Kirk kidnapped the High Vizier (or whatever his title was) and had him beamed to the mine so he could experience what the Trogs were going through. Without the breathing masks he so generously offered to the Trogs (so they would no longer suffer from mental retardation), both went batshit crazy and started fighting. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/51 "2017-07-25T20:20:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Nope. “Establish diplomatic relations, no matter what.” Even if it means completely upsetting two entire societies by imposing a resolution to their conflict. > > Ever wonder what happened after Kirk & Co. left that system? How long do you think “peace” would have lasted between two planets that obviously hated each other’s guts? > > My bet is that they started building and using real cobalt bombs inside of a month. “Bombs? _Real_ bombs? Over my nice new azaleas? Screw that, live and let live.” Which was the point. Both sides were used to a nice, neat, tidy war. The real thing would have been _much_ too icky. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d cite “Friday’s Child” as by far the most egregious and unambiguous example, especially since Kirk gave a speech earlier to the Capellans along the lines of “The highest of our laws is… your world is _yours_”. What I found amazing about “FC” was Kirk & Co. blithely spouting about about spaceships and other worlds to these obvious primitives, which according to “Bread and Circuses” was a definite PD no-no. But I guess they get a pass because the Capellans have something we really, _really_ want. > [@](#): > > “A Taste of Armageddon”: Arguably, the Eminiarians attacked first. I suppose if Anan 7 had said “Y’know, your presence is fucking up our war-simulation so bugger off!”, it would be a blatant Prime Directive violation to stick around anyway. Actually, the Eminians did send a “Code 7-10” which was Federation standard for “Please leave.” Ambassador Butthead of the Week overruled Kirk, stating “We really, _really_ need to…” Yeah. > [@](#): > > “The Omega Glory”: Captain Tracey had blatantly and eagerly interfered. Kirk’s actions were to try to clean up the mess. Actually, it was unclear to me what was going on - the dialog suggests the unseen battle was the last, allowing the “Yangs” to reclaim all their lost territory. Does that mean elsewhere in the Yankee-analogous areas, the reconquest was complete and the Yangs were recivilizing? It’s suggested the scope is global, but everything we see is determinedly local. I have more than enough problems with “TOG” without getting into PD debates… > [@](#): > > “Miri”: Ditto. > [@](#): > > “Return of the Archons”: Lampshaded by “we’re here to assess and repair the damage of earlier contamination.” Mmmm, no. Landru 2.0 had these people mind-locked centuries before the Archons turned up and got toasted for their troubles. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/52 "2017-07-25T20:41:24Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > What I found amazing about “FC” was Kirk & Co. blithely spouting about about spaceships and other worlds to these obvious primitives, which according to “Bread and Circuses” was a definite PD no-no. But I guess they get a pass because the Capellans have something we really, _really_ want. For whatever reason, the Capellans had already been contacted by the Feds at some point; McCoy (and presumably other off-worlders) even lived among them for a time. So Kirk was hardly to blame for exposing them to the rest of the Galaxy and its high technology. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/53 "2017-07-25T20:52:10Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Mmmm, no. Landru 2.0 had these people mind-locked centuries before the Archons turned up and got toasted for their troubles. Yes, but irrelevant. Investigating what happened to the _Archon_ and what effect it might have had is the reason the _Enterprise_ was there in the first place. They didn’t go there to rescue Landru’s minions. They didn’t seem aware there _was_ a Landru before beaming people down in local costume to check the place out. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/54 "2017-07-25T20:53:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The one that always pissed me off was > Requiem for Methuselah. > > Kirk should have been criminally charged for his behavior. > > First he threatens force to stay on a planet where he’s not wanted. Flint reluctantly agreed to help. > > Kirk is given two hours to obtain a mineral Ryetalyn. It’s needed on the ship to cure Rigellian Fever. Flint’s robots obtain and process the ore. > > Kirk is there for two lousy hours and gets the hots for the only woman on the planet. Even claims to be in love with her! He ends up destroying Rayna Kapec. She was an Android that shuts down from intense emotion. > > Kirk totally screws up Flint’s aka Leonardo’s life. Kills his only companion and leaves. > > Talk about abusing the Prime Directive I always had trouble with that episode, but you made me realize why. He’s Captain Trump. Where is Spock when I need him? “Forget…” ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/55 "2017-07-25T23:04:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The one that always pissed me off was > Requiem for Methuselah. > > Kirk should have been criminally charged for his behavior. > > First he threatens force to stay on a planet where he’s not wanted. Flint reluctantly agreed to help. > > Kirk is given two hours to obtain a mineral Ryetalyn. It’s needed on the ship to cure Rigellian Fever. Flint’s robots obtain and process the ore. > > Kirk is there for two lousy hours and gets the hots for the only woman on the planet. Even claims to be in love with her! He ends up destroying Rayna Kapec. She was an Android that shuts down from intense emotion. > > Kirk totally screws up Flint’s aka Leonardo’s life. Kills his only companion and leaves. > > Talk about abusing the Prime Directive Criminal trespass, extortion and armed robbery for starters. Flint could sue for damages as well: one vaporized M-4 unit and the destruction of the android. But remember that Flint was a human who had acquired enough wealth to purchase that planet and move there to retire. Flint was no primitive nor was he an indigenous species so I’m not seeing a PD violation here. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/56 "2017-07-25T23:41:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The one that always pissed me off was > Requiem for Methuselah. . . . > > Talk about abusing the Prime Directive Well, but again, Flint was from the Federation; he had access to warp drive. He isn’t the kind of pre-warp civ the rule is made to protect. But…yes, Kirk was a real jerk in that episode. (Spock also blundered: he starts to warn Kirk and Flint…and then just shuts up and watches the tragedy unfold. Show some courage, Spock: raise your voice and make them listen! It’s the only logical thing to do!) (Flint was also a jerk. Rayna could have done a lot better than either of those drips.) ETA: The “Brahms” waltz in that episode was truly lovely! ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/57 "2017-07-26T01:40:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, but again, Flint was from the Federation; he had access to warp drive. He isn’t the kind of pre-warp civ the rule is made to protect. > > But…yes, Kirk was a real jerk in that episode. (Spock also blundered: he starts to warn Kirk and Flint…and then just shuts up and watches the tragedy unfold. Show some courage, Spock: raise your voice and make them listen! It’s the only logical thing to do!) > > (Flint was also a jerk. Rayna could have done a lot better than either of those drips.) > > ETA: The “Brahms” waltz in that episode was truly lovely! Yes it was. According to Memory Alpha: The Brahms paraphrase that Spock plays was written especially for this episode by Ivan Ditmars. The sheet music shown is from Brahms, his 16 Walzes, Op. 39. Well done, Ivan! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/58 "2017-07-26T03:48:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In what way did muscling in on the Iotians “fix the contamination”? :dubious: 😕 By exactly what Kirk says near the end. KIRK: Yes, that’s a very good question, Mister Spock. I propose our cut be put into the planetary treasury and used to guide the Iotians into a more ethical system. Despite themselves, they’ll be forced to accept conventional responsibilities. Isn’t that logical? So get out of the situation, and now the Federation will have the power to guide them to a better system. Granted, it’s not the solution I would take. Mine would just be “meh. They’ll grow out of it eventually, just like we did. Just keep a watch on them, just in case.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782/59 "2017-07-26T04:24:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > By exactly what Kirk says near the end. > > KIRK: Yes, that’s a very good question, Mister Spock. I propose our cut be put into the planetary treasury and used to guide the Iotians into a more ethical system. Despite themselves, they’ll be forced to accept conventional responsibilities. Isn’t that logical? > > So get out of the situation, and now the Federation will have the power to guide them to a better system. So the Feds are going to, uhm, try to “re-educate” them. Yeah, right. Call me a pessimist, but I do not believe that bodes well for anyone. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kirks-most-blatant-obliterations-of-the-prime-directive/791782.md?page=2)