KISS musical question

[Alessan]

@Kimballkid

Probably not available in Canuckistan, since KISS is ‘An American Band’!

… the most famous member of which was from my home town of Haifa, Israel.

[Moonchild]

I dig KISS. And “Calling Dr. Love” is wahsome. And so was their movie, (La-la-la-la-la-I-can’t-hear-you.)

Just curious: how did (replacement) KISS guitarist Bruce Kulick fare in his musical talents, relative to his KISS counterparts or otherwise? I went over his house a couple times to shoot, of all things, a Bar Mitzvah skit – pretty down-to-earth dude – and then saw him perform at the BM reception and I thought he was pretty awesome. But I don’t know beans about music. (Aside: turns out his brother Bob was one of my old softball buddies, but I didn’t know his last name, so no clue they were related. I gather, from Wiki, he was a pretty good guitarist in his own right as well as record producer.)

I think it was Halloween, 1995, I was at a KISS tribute concert, a band named Cold Gin, and while I was watching them, I noticed Gene Simmons standing next to me. “You should be up there, man,” I told him. In retrospect, I think he was there to gauge their popularity, because they came out of retirement shortly thereafter.

[Toxylon]

Back in the 90’s Bass Player magazine ran an interview with a famed session bassist, whose name I can’t recall, who told that he had to fill in for Simmons on KISS recordings, such a great player we are talking about here.

[WordMan]

[quote=“Quintas, post:33, topic:778847”]

:dubious:

[/QUOTE]

Two points:

• Yeah, he’s not playing anything a beginner couldn’t play after a year or two. And his execution is sloppy. Meh, he’s more than enough for what they play.

• That’s not a bass solo to me. That’s selling and hyping the crowd with simple call-and-response bits. He does one flash bit with a droning string, and one bit of lead work, but he’s never doing those things to “express musical artistry” or melt your face with Claypool/Billy Sheehan pyrotechnics. He’s doing it it hype the crowd. He’s got the Sales part down and uses it well.

[Alessan]

I don’t see how playing a great bass solo makes you a great bassist. The bass is a support instrument - a great bass player doesn’t make himself sound good, he makes the song sound good.

[WordMan]

@Alessan

I don’t see how playing a great bass solo makes you a great bassist. The bass is a support instrument - a great bass player doesn’t make himself sound good, he makes the song sound good.

There’s a fine line between giving a tip of the hat to a supporting instrument in a solo and boring the crap out of everybody (We don’t need to start with the bass solo jokes here).

But for someone like Flea, say, or John Entwistle - they play a form of “lead bass that supports the song” that works for them, and hearing them step up for some blistering solo work, in moderation, is a joyous thing. YMMV.

[journeyman_southpaw]

@Moonchild

Just curious: how did (replacement) KISS guitarist Bruce Kulick fare in his musical talents, relative to his KISS counterparts or otherwise?

He fares well with me. His '80s Kiss stuff was shredding in the Eddie Van Halen mold because that was the popular style and that’s what he was told to play, but his his later work balances the shredding with bluesy wailing that’s more like the “real” Bruce, the one who names Hendrix and Leslie West among his big early influences.

[Quintas]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Thanks for the video that supports what I wrote, Quintas. And thanks for the backup, scabpicker.

Like I said, Gene Simmons is a competent, capable bass player. For a rock band. That plays simple, catchy songs. You know who else was a competent, capable bass player? Dee Dee Ramone. Lemmy Kilmister. Michael Anthony. All totally competent and capable for the music they and their band were making.

Oh I know.

That video is just hilariously ridiculous to me and it amuses me to share it anytime the subject of KISS comes up.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@buddha_david

Gene Simmons does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Lemmy.

Here; let me help fight your ignorance (and maybe some of that attitude):
[

@Gene Simmons

"My own story involved meeting Lem in 1974, or perhaps it was in early 1975, when his band HAWKWIND (named after sci-fi/fantasy writer’s Michael Moorcock’s book of the same name, which I read and loved as a teenager) opened for KISS somewhere in Middle America. HAWKWIND was a psychedelic rock band, eclectic, with a wonderful 6’2” belly dancer: Stacia.

"Lem and I didn’t meet up again until a few years later. And continued to run into each other backstage at shows, or at big festivals, when MOTÖRHEAD would be on the bill… always with a big ‘How are you.’ And a welcoming hug.

"A few years ago, I was filming a TV show called ‘Rock School’. It was filmed in England (first season at Christ Church Hospital). I was teaching young 14-year-olds to put down the booze and the hooch, and pick up an instrument and learn to care about something else in life, like putting together a rock band, and writing your own song for the first time. And they did. And the transformation of these young people into committed rockers, who cared, was inspiring.

"But how do I end the first season on an up?..After these young people did all the work, what’s the payoff? So, I called Lem and his management, who happened to be playing London at the time, and they kindly agreed to let this new band, who had never played or recorded anywhere, open up for MOTÖRHEAD at the sold-out Hammersmith Odeon, in London England.

"Backstage before the show, the kids were nervous as hell, as you can imagine. I walked into Lemmy’s room and thanked him for giving them a chance. And he responded quite naturally, that someone had once given him a chance. I said thank you again, and said I had to go into the young band’s room to bolster their confidence level before they went on stage.

"Lemmy immediately stood up and despite my objections, walked into the new band’s room, and what I saw, were young, wide-eyed kids getting the schooling of their life, from someone who’d been there and done that. And more importantly, he reminded the kids that once upon a time, he was them. And that anything is possible.

"And that night, these young rockers went out there with fire in their veins, and rocked the house.

"That was Lemmy. Unassuming. Non-judgmental. With a heart of gold.

"I never heard anyone, fan or other bands ever say anything bad about Lem. I’ve certainly heard ‘asshole’ thrown my way, once or twice. But never at Lemmy.

"A great man.

“Lemmy was mostly comfortable in his own skin. And perhaps that’s something we can all learn from.”

](GENE SIMMONS: LEMMY Was 'Unassuming' And 'Non-Judgmental' With 'A Heart Of Gold' - BLABBERMOUTH.NET)

[Snowboarder_Bo]

By the way, I forgot to mention that Mr. Simmons wrote that after attending Lemmy’s memorial service.

[Jim_s_Son]

Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart prides himself on his. knowledge about the history of drums and world music. I remember reading him once talking disgustingly about Bedouin teenagers listening to KISS on the walkmans (mid 1980s quote).

[buddha_david]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Mr. Simmons wrote that after attending Lemmy’s memorial service.

Nice eulogy, but I fail to see your point. Lemmy said nothing about Gene Simmons’ musical talent, and nobody’s arguing that KISS hasn’t given tons and tons of now-famous bands their first break – probably their greatest virtue.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@buddha_david

Nice eulogy, but I fail to see your point. Lemmy said nothing about Gene Simmons’ musical talent, and nobody’s arguing that KISS hasn’t given tons and tons of now-famous bands their first break – probably their greatest virtue.

Your post contained all kinds of misplaced elitist attitude, IMO.

Gene Simmons and Lemmy were friends for over 50 years and respected each other both personally and professionally. By disrespecting Gene Simmons as you did you also disrespected Lemmy, IMO.

Look, Lemmy was not a bass virtuoso; he was no Jaco Pastorius or James Jamerson or Les Claypool or Mike Watt. He didn’t change how anyone approached the instrument or what the role of the bass guitar in a rock band could be. He was a towering figure in rock and roll, to be sure, and a personal hero to many (me included) for things other than his mastery of the instrument, but as far as his playing ability he was most emphatically not anything more than a competent, capable bass player in a rock band that played simple, catchy songs… just like his friend, Gene Simmons. And his friend Dee Dee Ramone, btw.

If we were talking about people named Gene or about bands that wore makeup, you’d most likely be right that Lemmy and Gene Simmons would not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence, but since we’re talking about proficiency with regards to their instrument, your comment was, IMO, out of line, out of place and (it seems) likely written out of ignorance. My post was an attempt to help you out, particularly with that last bit.

[buddha_david]

@Snowboarder_Bo

[Lemmy] was most emphatically not anything more than a competent, capable bass player in a rock band that played simple, catchy songs… just like his friend, Gene Simmons.

[emphasis mine]

There you go again, dismissing Lemmy as “competent”. :rolleyes:

There was nothing merely “competent” about Lemmy’s bass proficiency. He played that instrument like no one else on the planet. He would play f’in’ POWER CHORDS on that Rickenbacker, for Pete’s sake! Sure, he didn’t have the flash or the wonkiness of Les Claypool or Billy Sheehan, but then, neither does Paul McCartney.

Flash can be overrated, anyway. The problem with players like Les Claypool is that flashy, wonky bass playing is all he can do. I have an album called “The Sane Asylum” featuring Claypool (and LaLonde) before he became famous with Primus, and hate to say it but sometimes, his twangy playing sometimes sounds out of place and gets in the way of the music.

I have no quarrel with you if you want to lump together Gene Simmons and Lemmy as fantastic showmen and legendary rock stars in general. But to say both were merely average in their musical ability, you’re way out of line. If Gene Simmons broke all his fingers and needed a hired gun to play bass for him in concert, nobody would notice the difference. With Lemmy, that would’ve been impossible. (Same goes for Mike Anthony, btw.)