# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/221 "2014-09-15T15:45:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So in **Jack Batty** world, a person who calls 911 is obligated to identify themselves, but a person being questioned by police isn’t, and is in fact allowed to just walk away if they believe the police are being mean to them? For the sake of anyone less stupid than **Smapti** who might actually understand the distinction, a person who calls 911 should be obligated to identify themselves _if they want their testimony to have any legal weight_. If they just want a cop to be in the right place at the right time to witness a crime being committed and respond accordingly, an anonymous tip would suffice. But if the cop shows up and witnesses no criminal activity, the mere fact that some anonymous caller called you a whore should not be grounds for the cop to infringe upon your rights to any greater extent than if they were acting on a hunch. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/222 "2014-09-15T15:46:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because he doesn’t care about them. In this cynical and ironic age, it’s sort of refreshing to see a **Smapti** hang a sign around his neck that says “I am a sheep and I demand that someone use me.” He’s downright offended by the existence of non-sheep because their actions imply that people can make a choice to be thoughtful and critical of authority. And yes, I know the sheep thing is a giant Internet cliche. But how else can you describe this guy? Other people call him a fascist, but the fascists conquered a bunch of Europe. **Smapti** isn’t conquering anything. He just sits there and bleats. You assume that the goal of the police is to “use” people. I assume that their goal is to enforce the laws that we the people have placed into effect. How can you claim to love the principles of democracy when you so openly hate the means of enforcement that the people have created to ensure that their will is carried out? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/223 "2014-09-15T15:47:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > When the Gestapo shows up on his doorstep demanding he prove his loyalties “When” the Gestapo shows up? Paranoid much? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/224 "2014-09-15T15:47:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If it doesn’t, then that’s a problem we need to address. It doesn’t. That may be a problem we want to address --we are, collectively, free to amend the law. Because these principles arise from the Constitution, it might take an amendment to the Constitution to do that. Or we could pass more stringent laws concerning indecent exposure. If that were a felony, then the police seizure of the actress would have been legal. That just requires a majority of the California legislature and the governor to change. But that’s not the case right now. Right now, in the current legal framework, the officer had no legal power to seize her. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/225 "2014-09-15T15:47:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If it doesn’t, then that’s a problem we need to address. Yes, there are simply too many individual liberties! We must ensure everyone is as obsequious as I am. Any soldiers need quartering? I’ve got an extra bed! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/226 "2014-09-15T15:50:35Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is how smart people deal with the police, because smart people don’t want problems with the police. Smart people know that arguing with a cop is a waste of time, because they’re not going to lose the argument, they will do what they think is the correct thing to do, even if it’s wrong. But that’s the thing.\* She is winning the argument. \*The police department is catching flak and she’s coming off as a hero. By refusing to give in, she has highlighted just one more instance of cops overstepping their bounds. “Smart people” also don’t sit in the front of the bus because they know black people are required to sit in the back. “Smart people” don’t march in Selma or Birmingham, and they certainly don’t let cops turn firehoses on them or let food be thrown on them at lunch counters. I don’t see why you and others keep reducing this to pragmatism and convenience. There are higher principles at stake here, and if you can’t see that, then yeah…prepare to not have your name added to the distribution list either. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/227 "2014-09-15T15:51:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is how smart people deal with the police, because smart people don’t want problems with the police. Smart people know that arguing with a cop is a waste of time, because they’re not going to lose the argument, they will do what they think is the correct thing to do, even if it’s wrong. > > The time to fight back is when YOU choose, not when a uniformed officer is getting in your face about something. > > Want to assert your rights? Say “Am I free to go?” Do that. When the cop says “No.” you have the information you need to make a complaint, because he overstepped his authority. Yelling, crying, calling them racists, threatening them with your publicist, demanding that they talk to your dad on speaker, that’s just making a fool of yourself. I agree. Cops and citizens shouldn’t be arguing over fine legal points at every encounter. The bf gave up his Id immediately, he wasn’t cuffed, she refused, she was. As soon as the bf gave them her id, she was uncuffed. Now, it could be that they were only kissing and some prudish person called it a “sex act”, but the cop wouldn’t have known that upon arriving at the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/228 "2014-09-15T15:51:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not the case right now. Right now, in the current legal framework, the officer had no legal power to seize her. Then I fully encourage her to sue the police department and explain under oath in a court of law what happened in that car and why she didn’t want the police to know her name, because if she’s as innocent as she swears she is, she’ll win. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/229 "2014-09-15T15:52:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If it doesn’t, then that’s a problem we need to address. You’re thinking above your station, dog. Whether or not it is a problem that needs addressing is for your betters to decide, not you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/230 "2014-09-15T15:53:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But that’s the thing.\* She is winning the argument. \*The police department is catching flak and she’s coming off as a hero. By refusing to give in, she has highlighted just one more instance of cops overstepping their bounds. If _asking someone their name_ is “overstepping their bounds”, then clearly we’ve gone way off the deep end in terms of allowing the cops to do their job. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/231 "2014-09-15T15:54:25Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You’re thinking above your station, dog. Whether or not it is a problem that needs addressing is for your betters to decide, not you. You say things like this, and _I’m_ the one who’s a fascist. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/232 "2014-09-15T15:54:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If _asking someone their name_ is “overstepping their bounds”, then clearly we’ve gone way off the deep end in terms of allowing the cops to do their job. You’re right. The police are absolutely permitted to ask someone’s name. What they cannot do, however, is require that she answer. She chose not to answer, and walked away, and the police seized her in violation of the Fourth Amendment’s guarantees against unreasonable search and seizure. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/233 "2014-09-15T15:55:23Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I agree. Cops and citizens shouldn’t be arguing over fine legal points at every encounter. The bf gave up his Id immediately, he wasn’t cuffed, she refused, she was. As soon as the bf gave them her id, she was uncuffed. Now, it could be that they were only kissing and some prudish person called it a “sex act”, but the cop wouldn’t have known that upon arriving at the scene. Did he know that he wasn’t investigating a felony? ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/234 "2014-09-15T15:55:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But that’s the thing.\* She is winning the argument. \*The police department is catching flak and she’s coming off as a hero. Getting attention is not the same thing as “winning the argument”. You saw how skeptical the CNN hostess was when she was interviewing her. The actress came off as a drama queen. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/235 "2014-09-15T15:56:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “When” the Gestapo shows up? Paranoid much? No, I’m not paranoid. But it seems you are totally oblivious to the slippery slope your ideas portend. Letting police powers override civil rights is a recipe for fascism. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/236 "2014-09-15T15:56:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You say things like this, and _I’m_ the one who’s a fascist. Right. Hmmm. Seems like there might be a point being illustrated there. Are you so thick as to have missed it? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/237 "2014-09-15T15:58:13Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Getting attention is not the same thing as “winning the argument”. You saw how skeptical the CNN hostess was when she was interviewing her. The actress came off as a drama queen. Educating the police and the public regarding civil liberties is also a desirable - winning - outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/238 "2014-09-15T15:58:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You assume that the goal of the police is to “use” people. I didn’t mention the police. I was talking about your attitude toward authority in general: every time there’s a story about a powerful person or group abusing their authority, your reaction is always to blame the people who brought it to the public’s attention. No matter what they do, the authorities always mean well and whistleblowers are not nice people because they’re saying mean things - and because they’ve disturbed your peace of mind. > [@](#): > > I assume that their goal is to enforce the laws that we the people have placed into effect. I do, too. Now and then they fuck this up royally, and they deserve to be called on it when they do. > [@](#): > > How can you claim to love the principles of democracy when you so openly hate the means of enforcement that the people have created to ensure that their will is carried out? So in your mind, democracy is all about protecting the powerful from the powerless? That’s fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/239 "2014-09-15T15:58:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then I fully encourage her to sue the police department and explain under oath in a court of law what happened in that car and why she didn’t want the police to know her name, because if she’s as innocent as she swears she is, she’ll win. If she sues, she won’t have to answer any questions about what happened in the car prior to the arrival of the police. And all she would have to say in answer to, “Why not give your name?” is: “It was my right under the Fourth Amendment to disregard the question about my name and go about my business.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/240 "2014-09-15T15:59:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What they cannot do, however, is require that she answer. She chose not to answer, and walked away, and the police seized her in violation of the Fourth Amendment’s guarantees against unreasonable search and seizure. I see nothing unreasonable about apprehending a fleeing suspect at the scene of a potential felony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=13)