# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/241 "2014-09-15T16:00:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Did he know that he wasn’t investigating a felony? Who? The cop? He’s not getting paid to only enforce felonies ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/242 "2014-09-15T16:01:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If _asking someone their name_ is “overstepping their bounds”, then clearly we’ve gone way off the deep end in terms of allowing the cops to do their job. Do you see a distinction between asking someone their name and insisting on seeing their ID? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/243 "2014-09-15T16:01:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Educating the police and the public regarding civil liberties is also a desirable - winning - outcome. Absolutely. A right not exercised is a right that is ripe to be lost. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/244 "2014-09-15T16:01:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t mention the police. I was talking about your attitude toward authority in general: every time there’s a story about a powerful person or group abusing their authority, your reaction is always to blame the people who brought it to the public’s attention. No matter what they do, the authorities always mean well and whistleblowers are not nice people because they’re saying mean things - and because they’ve disturbed your peace of mind. In general, the authorities _are_ right, and the people complaining are angry because they broke the law and got caught. > [@](#): > > So in your mind, democracy is all about protecting the powerful from the powerless? That’s fascinating. In my mind, democracy is about carrying out the will of the people. The people have determined that public lewdness and prostitution should not be allowed and they have empowered the police to investigate if such things are alleged to have occurred. Why do you begrudge the police for carrying out the will of the people? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/245 "2014-09-15T16:02:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I see nothing unreasonable about apprehending a fleeing suspect at the scene of a potential felony. Nor do I. If this had been the scene of a potential felony, I’d agree the seizure was reasonable. But the problem is: it was only the scene of a potential misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/246 "2014-09-15T16:02:29Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Do you see a distinction between asking someone their name and insisting on seeing their ID? If the suspect refuses to provide their name, as is the case here, then no. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/247 "2014-09-15T16:02:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I see nothing unreasonable about apprehending a fleeing suspect at the scene of a potential felony. Okay so you are that fucking thick. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/248 "2014-09-15T16:03:15Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Educating the police and the public regarding civil liberties is also a desirable - winning - outcome. Which is credited more towards the CNN hostess who reminded the audience at the end of the interview that the ACLU advises every citizen to always comply with police instruction, even if you feel you’re being treated unlawfully. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/249 "2014-09-15T16:03:43Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Who? The cop? He’s not getting paid to only enforce felonies No shit. They are limited in what they can do when they aren’t. Understand? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/250 "2014-09-15T16:04:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nor do I. If this had been the scene of a potential felony, I’d agree the seizure was reasonable. > > But the problem is: it was only the scene of a potential misdemeanor. [QUOTE=CA Penal Code, SECTION 314-318.6] Every person who willfully and lewdly… Exposes his person, or the private parts thereof, in any public place, or in any place where there are present other persons to be offended or annoyed thereby… is guilty of a misdemeanor. Upon the second and each subsequent conviction under subdivision 1 of this section, or upon a first conviction under subdivision 1 of this section after a previous conviction under Section 288, every person so convicted **is guilty of a felony** (emphasis mine), and is punishable by imprisonment in state prison. [/QUOTE] If the suspect had previously been convicted of misdemeanor lewd conduct, or one of any number of other sex offenses defined under Section 288, then a second offense would be a felony. As such, the officer had a duty to identify the suspect and determine whether they had a prior record so as to discern whether a felony had taken place. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/251 "2014-09-15T16:05:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In general, the authorities _are_ right, and the people complaining are angry because they broke the law and got caught. > > In my mind, democracy is about carrying out the will of the people. The people have determined that public lewdness and prostitution should not be allowed and they have empowered the police to investigate if such things are alleged to have occurred. Why do you begrudge the police for carrying out the will of the people? I agree that democracy has resulted in the public legitimately outlawing both public lewdness and prostitution. But the public also said that both public lewdness and prostitution were to be classified and punished as misdemeanors. Do you agree that this is true? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/252 "2014-09-15T16:07:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why do you begrudge the police for carrying out the will of the people? And the will of the people is to place limits on the powers of the police. Get that? Not everyone is comfortable with the idea of giving the cops a hummer upon demand. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/253 "2014-09-15T16:08:19Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No shit. They are limited in what they can do when they aren’t. Understand? Limited, as in, not allowed to ask for id? Cops are trained to look for suspicious behavior. A person refusing to give their id is suspicious. Don’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/254 "2014-09-15T16:08:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > :dubious: Crap, sorry Hentor. I admit I was skimming and missed your post. This is an interesting thread but I was a bit distracted reading it. Thus, thanks for explaining that and fighting my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/255 "2014-09-15T16:09:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And the will of the people is to place limits on the powers of the police. Get that? And the police acted within those limits, so what are you complaining about? > [@](#): > > Not everyone is comfortable with the idea of giving the cops a hummer upon demand. So in your book, being asked your name is comparable to forced sodomy? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/256 "2014-09-15T16:09:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the suspect had previously been convicted of misdemeanor lewd conduct, then a second offense would be a felony. As such, the officer had a duty to identify the suspect and determine whether they had a prior record so as to discern whether a felony had taken place. Nice try. You’re absolutely right: a second conviction would make it a felony. But remember that in order to effect a Terry stop, he has to have at least reasonable suspicion that there’s a felony involved. And remember that reasonable suspicion is derived from all the facts in the officer’s knowledge, along with all the reasonable inferences from those facts. You can list every single fact the officer knew. But not one of them makes it reasonable for the officer to suspect that the actress had a prior conviction for prostitution. (And, in fact, she does not, as we now know – that’s not relevant to reasonable suspicion analysis, though; we look at what the officer knew at the time, not what he later learned.) So under the rules relating to Terry stops, he did NOT have reasonable suspicion to believe the actress had a prior conviction. Did he? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/257 "2014-09-15T16:11:07Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Limited, as in, not allowed to ask for id? Cops are trained to look for suspicious behavior. A person refusing to give their id is suspicious. Don’t you agree? Yes, generically. But since there’s no law requiring a person to carry ID, it’s not a particularized suspicion of a crime. It’s just an inchoate suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/258 "2014-09-15T16:11:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In general, the authorities _are_ right, and the people complaining are angry because they broke the law and got caught. These people didn’t. > [@](#): > > In my mind, democracy is about carrying out the will of the people. Your mind is wrong. Without strictly-enforced limits on the will of the people, there is no democracy. Smarter people than you figured this out centuries ago. > [@Smapti](#): > > And the police acted within those limits, so what are you complaining about? He’s talking about another concept you’re probably not familiar with: the judicious exercise of state power. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/259 "2014-09-15T16:13:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And the police acted within those limits, so what are you complaining about? > > So in your book, being asked your name is comparable to forced sodomy? I have to agree. Showing your ID to law enforcement isn’t exactly being forced to give a blowjob. Ninety-nine percent of us give way more info out to google/FB/amazon/twitter than the info that’s on a drivers license everyday. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/260 "2014-09-15T16:13:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your mind is wrong. Let the record show that the above poster believes the will of the people is irrelevant to democracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=14)