# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/641 "2014-09-16T05:09:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Also, according to the same article - > > \*Daniele Watts had just left CBS studios in the San Fernando Valley around 2 PM Thursday. She says she was making out with her BF, but we’ve learned witnesses from the nearby Art Directors Guild office building told cops they were watching her and her BF have full-on sex in the passenger seat WITH THE DOOR OPEN! > > The eyewitnesses said the guy was sitting in the seat, she was straddling him and it was for everyone to see. One eyewitness told cops they cleaned themselves up afterward with a tissue.\* > > If the eyewitness(es) are willing to testify in court, it doesn’t look good for Watts as a person but it will be a big boost for her Hollyweird career. I don’t see how that’s possible given the shorts she was wearing. She would’ve had to remove those. I thought it might’ve happened if one was giving the other oral but not intercourse. It’s more likely that they were dry humping and simulating actual sex. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/642 "2014-09-16T06:44:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Plenty. Then surely you must know a little bit about the rise of the NSDAP. Then again, given what you’ve said, you probably think that was a good thing, so who am I kidding. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/643 "2014-09-16T08:45:55Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I don’t see how that’s possible given the shorts she was wearing. She would’ve had to remove those. I thought it might’ve happened if one was giving the other oral but not intercourse. It’s more likely that they were dry humping and simulating actual sex. Given the shorts she was wearing, I don’t see how it’s possible for you to determine that having intercourse was impossible. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/644 "2014-09-16T08:58:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Given the shorts she was wearing, I don’t see how it’s possible for you to determine that having intercourse was impossible. With the shorts she was wearing in the video - I think sex is entirely possible. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/645 "2014-09-16T09:19:28Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I’m beginning to think he has no knowledge beyond what his 7th grade history teacher taught last year and some Super Cop’s are Awesome forum. There’s absolutely no way he’s older than 14. (looks at join date) I must have been a highly precocious 2-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/646 "2014-09-16T09:25:41Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Smapti: In what types of situations would you limit police authority even if their sincere aim was to protect society at large? Please describe some laws, if any, you would enact to restrict police powers in those situations. I don’t believe police should be able to go on “fishing expeditions” and just start investigating people randomly to see if they’ve done anything wrong. I don’t think they should use high-pressure interrogation tactics to squeeze confessions out of people. I think that, when possible, they should give a clear verbal warning before using force. Since last month, I have come around and decided that wearable cameras which cannot be turned off by the officer are a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/647 "2014-09-16T09:26:49Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Then surely you must know a little bit about the rise of the NSDAP. Then again, given what you’ve said, you probably think that was a good thing, so who am I kidding. No, I don’t think it was a good thing. You seem to be conflating my acknowledgement that something is _possible_ with a belief that it must be _good_. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/648 "2014-09-16T10:24:35Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > With the shorts she was wearing in the video - I think sex is entirely possible. Lots of things are possible. What is likely matters more. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/649 "2014-09-16T10:25:17Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yeah you are criticizing her, while saying nothing about the law-breaking cops. I’d said multiple times that, given the legal analysis here, that the cops overstepped their legal authority. I’ll say it again: The cops appear to have overstepped their legal authority ok? > [@](#): > > And maybe, as someone who has enjoyed white male privilege all of his life, he assumed he’d be given benefit of the doubt and wouldn’t be prejudged as a criminal based on his record, even if he had multiple priors. And maybe, as a black woman, she assumed that she wouldn’t be given any benefit of the doubt and would needlessly be opening herself up to persecution if she submitted to their demands, even if the only thing on her record was a shoplifting charge from the 12th grade. If you want the “benefit of the doubt” don’t start the conversation with “you’re a fucking racist” and “I’m going to sue your ass” (paraphrased comments). > [@](#): > > Ultimately, none of this matters. You’re essentially arguing that the only time it makes sense to exercise one’s rights is when doing so doesn’t get in the way of the police. I would argue that that’s exactly when we should assert our rights, otherwise there is little point to them being enshrined in constitutional law. They’ll just be courtesies or guidelines, not rights. You have a point, I did not include an “assert your rights” option in between “play ball” and “annoying asshole”. You can assert your rights. Step one is to understand your rights. The police frequently have legal authority to detain you, question you, and demand your ID. This authority has nothing to do with the fact that you were “just kissing” your BF, and everything to do with the information the Police are working with in their investigation. Information that you don’t have, and information that the Police are not required to give you. Assert your rights. “Am I being detained?” “Am I free to go?” “I do not consent to a search.” Yelling at the police, threatening the police, calling them racists, is not asserting your rights, it’s just being an ass. It also needs to be understood that asserting your rights isn’t going to stop a police officer from detaining you. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/650 "2014-09-16T12:08:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Question (I know this is the Pit, but I’m curious…feel free to throw in a FUCK YOU XT!! or whatever along with the answer :p)…what crime could the police be charged with in this case? I’m not a lawyer, and it seems a bit confusing to me. I was reading a CNN article that seemed to indicate that the cops had legal grounds to ask for ID, but the consensus in this thread seems to be that they didn’t, and that they violated the law by detaining her for not showing ID. So, what crime could the police be charged with, and what’s the probable outcome of pursuing this? I assume that there will for sure be a civil suit against the LAPD and that they will most likely be paying damages, but what about criminal charges? Unlawful detainer, and perhaps assault? I don’t know if the police can be held liable if somebody is injured in the process of being detained. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/651 "2014-09-16T12:14:13Z")
Lots of smarts going to waste in this thread. Some ignorance just can’t be fought y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/652 "2014-09-16T12:35:05Z")
I dunno, it looks like she was throwing a tantrum ala my 4 yr old. It’s possible to fight the power and stand for your ground without being a spazz about it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/653 "2014-09-16T14:42:26Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I dunno, it looks like she was throwing a tantrum ala my 4 yr old. It’s possible to fight the power and stand for your ground without being a spazz about it. Rude or immature people shouldn’t have their rights violated either. I might not react like she did, but I’m not comfortable second-guessing someone’s response to a situation like this. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/654 "2014-09-16T15:56:27Z")
IMHO, all this focus on the technical legal aspects are misplaced. OK, let’s grant that the cop overstepped his bounds and committed some sort of violation. That’s not why there’s a thread about this or why it’s a national story. The core of this story was the notion that this woman was arrested for PDA while black. At this point it seems pretty clear that this is not the case, and that she was arrested because she got confrontational with a cop who was (apparently) unfamiliar with the fine points of when he could or could not detain people for refusing to identify themselves. So it’s pretty clear that the outrage which spawned this thread was unwarranted, regardless of the legal technicalities. (What’s a bit odd is that some of the posters who are here arguing so vociferously for page after page about legal details seem to be the same people who elsewhere have argued against this very approach.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/655 "2014-09-16T16:00:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IMHO, all this focus on the technical legal aspects are misplaced. OK, let’s grant that the cop overstepped his bounds and committed some sort of violation. That’s not why there’s a thread about this or why it’s a national story. > > The core of this story was the notion that this woman was arrested for PDA while black. At this point it seems pretty clear that this is not the case, and that she was arrested because she got confrontational with a cop who was (apparently) unfamiliar with the fine points of when he could or could not detain people for refusing to identify themselves. > > So it’s pretty clear that the outrage which spawned this thread was unwarranted, regardless of the legal technicalities. (What’s a bit odd is that some of the posters who are here arguing so vociferously for page after page about legal details seem to be the same people who elsewhere have argued against this very approach.) It’s reasonable to approach this story as part of a trend in which black people are often treated differently by police than white people. And it’s reasonable to look at a story in which a police officer treated a black person improperly as part of this trend, whatever the motivations were of the officer. It’s entirely possible that this was a decent cop doing his best, and that much of the disparate treatment of black people is performed by decent cops doing their best, and that decent cops doing their best are just not enough to counteract systemic discrimination in both the justice system and society at large. Training, procedures, unconscious biases, and a million other factors are very likely playing a role in this, and Watts’ detainment may just be yet another symptom of this very large and long-lived problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/656 "2014-09-16T16:00:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (What’s a bit odd is that some of the posters who are here arguing so vociferously for page after page about legal details seem to be the same people who elsewhere have argued against this very approach.) You raise a good point. I amazed (and gratified) to see some of the people here supporting the legal issues, when they have earlier been vocal opponents of the legal analytical approach. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/657 "2014-09-16T16:02:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You raise a good point. I amazed (and gratified) to see some of the people here supporting the legal issues, when they have earlier been vocal opponents of the legal analytical approach. Maybe it’s a case where morality and ideals coincide with the law. That’s not a criticism of the legal analytical approach, but only to say that it’s not always the only way to consider such things. However, recently I have been trying to look at these issues leaving aside the aspect of racism and I was a little hasty in my initial post. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/658 "2014-09-16T16:33:38Z")
I don’t understand why the racial angle is being dismissed so readily. Again, the cops were summoned to the scene because of a call for public lewdness. When the cops arrived, no lewdness was going on; they just saw two people hanging around on the street being casual. So then they looked at these two people and jumped to the conclusion that prostitution was potentially involved. But why? We’re talking about two sex-related crimes that really have nothing in common. Public lewdness in broad daylight —\> prostitution is a non sequitur. So what would make cops think this couple wasn’t a pair of romantic partners but rather a hooker and a john? Cops should be thinking horses not zebras, especially if the circumstances don’t argue for zebras. It’s perfectly reasonable to think race was the thing the cops glommed onto. Lots of black women in relationships with white men have taken the brunt of that assumption, probably just as often as they encounter the “you must be the nanny” assumption when they are seen in public with a racially ambiguous looking child. Years ago, I briefly dated a white guy and while eating out one night, he quipped that if his co-workers saw us, they’d think I was a prostitute. I was young and stupid and didn’t read too much into what he said, but the implication was clear. I didn’t (and still don’t) look stereotypically like a hooker by any stretch of the imagination, and yet that association comes to some people’s mind whenever they see a white guy with a minority. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/659 "2014-09-16T16:38:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t understand why the racial angle is being dismissed so readily. There’s one person in the audio log who reacts in a racist fashion, and it isn’t the officer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/660 "2014-09-16T16:41:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So then they looked at these two people and jumped to the conclusion that prostitution was potentially involved. Having listened to the audio tape, I’m afraid I don’t see any evidence that the police jumped to any conclusion about prostitution. What is the basis for your statement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=34)