# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/661 "2014-09-16T16:42:44Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t understand why the racial angle is being dismissed so readily. It has the stink of racism about it, but it’s still wrong no matter who the couple was. So racism doesn’t have to be the focus of the discussion. If an argument is hinged upon racism it tends to become the only factor considered, and racists won’t even attempt to engage in any rational discussion. So as much as I find racism disgusting and downright stupid it may be more productive to bring forth the underlying failures of morality and rights as they apply to everyone. Anyway, that’s the theory I’m attempting to work from for a while to see what happens. It may be futile, but I’m trying to give it a shot. I just failed myself in my first post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/662 "2014-09-16T16:44:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You raise a good point. I amazed (and gratified) to see some of the people here supporting the legal issues, when they have earlier been vocal opponents of the legal analytical approach. Some people prioritize justice over legality. Some people prioritize legality over justice. Sometimes there’s agreement between legality and justice. Sometimes there’s not. There’s no reason to be surprised unless you somehow think justice and legality are interchangeable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/663 "2014-09-16T16:49:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Some people prioritize justice over legality. > > Some people prioritize legality over justice. > > Sometimes there’s agreement between legality and justice. > > Sometimes there’s not. > > There’s no reason to be surprised unless you somehow think justice and legality are interchangeable. I think there may be more widespread disagreement about what, exactly, “justice” means in a given situation. Legality tends to be more firmly and objectively defined. But let’s imagine a person who prizes justice over legality. In this thread, why wouldn’t such a person continue to valorize justice? Why would he (or she) suddenly switch to support of the law? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/664 "2014-09-16T16:50:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Having listened to the audio tape, I’m afraid I don’t see any evidence that the police jumped to any conclusion about prostitution. > > What is the basis for your statement? Hey, you’re right. I just read the transcripts and see the prostitution thing was pulled out of nowhere. Mea culpa on that point. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/665 "2014-09-16T16:57:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In this thread, why wouldn’t such a person continue to valorize justice? Why would he (or she) suddenly switch to support of the law? Most of the discussion from the “pro-rights side” has invoked both philosophical arguments _and_ legal ones. And that’s mainly because philosophical and legal ones have been invoked from the other side. If you’re asking why people haven’t completely eschewed talking about the law in favor of “valorizing” justice, well, that’s a no brainer. Because most of us understand that the law serves an important purpose and has value. But we also understand that it has its limitations when it comes to making determinations about morality and ethics. This sensitivity is what allows us to identify a law that is bad and requires fixing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/666 "2014-09-16T16:59:10Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We’re talking about two sex-related crimes that really have nothing in common. Public lewdness in broad daylight —\> prostitution is a non sequitur. I don’t think this is true. Many acts of prostitution involve sex in public, including sex in a car. > [@](#): > > So what would make cops think this couple wasn’t a pair of romantic partners but rather a hooker and a john? Because married people have less inclination to have sex on the public street - they (often) have houses to go to for a nooner. > [@](#): > > Cops should be thinking horses not zebras, especially if the circumstances don’t argue for zebras. I’m sorry, ever since the “Lying Whore” thread you have lost the right to use that phrase. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/667 "2014-09-16T17:32:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m sorry, ever since the “Lying Whore” thread you have lost the right to use that phrase. There was a “Lying Whore” thread? Damn, I miss all the good ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/668 "2014-09-16T17:32:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Most of the discussion from the “pro-rights side” has invoked both philosophical arguments _and_ legal ones. And that’s mainly because philosophical and legal ones have been invoked from the other side. > > If you’re asking why people haven’t completely eschewed talking about the law in favor of “valorizing” justice, well, that’s a no brainer. Because most of us understand that the law serves an important purpose and has value. But we also understand that it has its limitations when it comes to making determinations about morality and ethics. This sensitivity is what allows us to identify a law that is bad and requires fixing. Sure, makes perfect sense. But I think this principle has been honored more in the breech than in the observance. Discussing how to fix a law that’s bad is a laudable approach – but arguing (even implicitly) that the law should be ignored, or the “fixed” law applied retroactively to reach prior bad-but-not-criminal conduct – is not so laudable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/669 "2014-09-16T17:33:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There was a “Lying Whore” thread? Damn, I miss all the good ones. Tiny thread, really. Not much to it at all. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/670 "2014-09-16T17:39:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tiny thread, really. Not much to it at all. Still embarrassed, are we? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/671 "2014-09-16T17:41:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Still embarrassed, are we? Link? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/672 "2014-09-16T17:42:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Still embarrassed, are we? Um… > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Crystal Gail Mangum (born July 18, 1978)[1] is an African-American woman from Durham, North Carolina best known for making false allegations of rape against white lacrosse players in the Duke lacrosse case. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > On April 11, 2007, North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper dropped all charges and declared the three players innocent. Cooper stated that the charged players – Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and David Evans – were victims of a “tragic rush to accuse.”[9] The initial prosecutor, Durham County’s District Attorney Mike Nifong, labeled a “rogue prosecutor” by Cooper, withdrew from the case in January 2007 after the North Carolina State Bar filed ethics charges against him. That June, Nifong was disbarred for “dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation”, making him the first prosecutor in North Carolina debarred for trial conduct. No, not really. Not in the least. You? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/673 "2014-09-16T17:45:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Link? > **[Lying whore.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822)** > > http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/04/10/duke.lacrosse.ap/index.html I pit not only the woman who lied and tarnished the reputation of these men, a team and a school, but I pit the people who forged protests and accosted these men despite... And from that thread, [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7438473&postcount=906) is an excellent summary. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/674 "2014-09-16T17:51:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Um… > You? Why would I be embarrassed?? I wasn’t the one arguing a bunch of nonsense. Nor did I side with a sexist racist. A certain someone can’t say the same. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/675 "2014-09-16T17:53:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But let’s imagine a person who prizes justice over legality. Speaking solely for myself, there’s a difference in what I prioritize when I’m talking about what the law SHOULD be vs when I’m talking about how the law should be applied to a real life situation. In the infinite voter ID thread, I’m not arguing “I don’t care what the law is, everyone should just ignore it and do what they want”. There are extreme situations where that is appropriate (civil disobedience in the 60’s, for instance), but in general part of living in a civilized society is respecting the law, even when you disagree with it. Rather, I’m claiming that I’m more interested in whether the law is ethical and right than in fiddly details about exactly how it should be applied. So in the current situation, the discussion about whether a temporary detention after a Terry stop was legal in this particular situation is interesting, and it’s very important that laws be fairly and precisely applied regardless of the race (or level of celebrity) of the parties involved. However, it’s also something I’m not hugely passionate about. If the law worked slightly differently, the way you initially thought it did, and the way CNN’s legal analysts described it – so that the officer’s detention of the woman was in fact legal – that wouldn’t strike me as an unjust intrusion of jack-booted-tyranny, yada yada yada. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/676 "2014-09-16T17:54:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Lying whore. - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822) > > And from that thread, [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7438473&postcount=906) is an excellent summary. Thanks! I was thinking it was a "lying whore"thread, not a thread about a literally prevaricating prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/677 "2014-09-16T17:57:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Lying whore. - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822) > > And from that thread, [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7438473&postcount=906) is an excellent summary. Poor thing. I guess you don’t remember. [The thread where you ilustrate how bad you are with reason.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=373271) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/678 "2014-09-16T18:00:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s reasonable to approach this story as part of a trend in which black people are often treated differently by police than white people. How does this story play into that trend? Clearly the white person and the black person were treated differently based on their own personal choices, and the decision by police to overstep their authority, but I’m not seeing how the police treated either person differently based upon race. To play devil’s advocate, I could turn this around and say “It’s reasonable to approach this story as part of a trend in which the police are often treated differently by black people and white people.” The police officer, in response to the act of showing up at the scene of a complaint, gets a tongue lashing from one person and “here’s my ID” from the other. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/679 "2014-09-16T18:31:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Given the shorts she was wearing, I don’t see how it’s possible for you to determine that having intercourse was impossible. > [@So, dopers, who else here is naked?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-dopers-who-else-here-is-naked/90477/132): > > With the shorts she was wearing in the video - I think sex is entirely possible. Oh come on… those shorts the actress was wearing are too long and too tight around her legs. She would’ve either had to have pulled them all the way down, ass out, or taken them off completely. To do that in broad daylight, outside of her place of work? I don’t see that, even if she does seem a little on the spacey side. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/680 "2014-09-16T18:49:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > How does this story play into that trend? Clearly the white person and the black person were treated differently based on their own personal choices, and the decision by police to overstep their authority, but I’m not seeing how the police treated either person differently based upon race. It’s nearly impossible to prove that any individual instance is driven by bias – we have to look at the statistics (and listen to the stories of those affected) to see that black people and white people are often treated differently by police due to their race. When we find out that the police acted improperly/unlawfully, as they did here by detaining Watts, then while we criticize that detainment we can also bring up that improper action by police towards a black person is distressingly common. > [@](#): > > To play devil’s advocate, I could turn this around and say “It’s reasonable to approach this story as part of a trend in which the police are often treated differently by black people and white people.” The police officer, in response to the act of showing up at the scene of a complaint, gets a tongue lashing from one person and “here’s my ID” from the other. I don’t think this is reasonable – authority figures like police can and should be judged differently than civilians. They should be commended for choosing to enter a difficult and sometimes dangerous career, and they should be scrutinized to avoid continuing such unfortunate trends as systemic discrimination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=35)