# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/701 "2014-09-17T00:32:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How about if they ask to search your vehicle? Well, that might be crossing a line, though I have nothing to hide. I DO know that they can’t just search my vehicle without probable cause (saw that on a TV show once, so must be true :p). However, asking me for ID is pretty low key as far as I’m concerned, since I get asked for it several times a week at least, and for equally dippy reasons (I mean, I’m handsome and all, but I don’t really LOOK like I’m under 21 anymore…or even under 31…or, hell, under 41…but I draw the line at 51. I DEFINITELY look under 51…ish…) ETA: But…I’d be very, VERY polite in turning them down, and if they pushed things I’d go along with the search. And be calling my lawyer the next day… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/702 "2014-09-17T00:58:42Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So I find plenty in this thread to agree with, and disagree with. I have one question, mostly for “she was standing up for her rights” side. Do you/would you make a practice of declining an officer’s request that you identify yourself? Would you instruct your children similarly? My advice to anyone would be to say: “Am I free to go?” And unless you are told, “Yes,” (in which case you leave) follow that with “I haven’t done anything wrong and I want to speak to an attorney.” Calmly, politely, and repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/703 "2014-09-17T01:12:39Z")
_Search the vehicle?_ “No.” (Makes mental note to self…) You know, when the kids were little, I thought I’d have plenty of time to tell them all of the things I wanted to… ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/704 "2014-09-17T01:21:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think I have the guts to say “no” in this situation, but I hope that enough people do say “no” so that police realize they have to change their practices. I’m pretty spineless, so I would probably do the same thing too. All the more reason why I think it’s great she refused to cave in. The existence of loud-mouth rabble rousers is what will keep us from succumbing to fascism. I plan to advise my children to cooperate with the police at all times unless they know, without a doubt, that the police is violating their rights. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/705 "2014-09-17T02:05:10Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > All the more reason why I think it’s great she refused to cave in. The existence of loud-mouth rabble rousers is what will keep us from succumbing to fascism. Where do you draw the line between being a “loud-mouth rabble rouser” and just being an unpleasant, entitled bitch? If an identical encounter had happened in a different state, in which minor differences in law had meant that the temporary detainment pending ID _was_ legal, would that change the moral statue of the woman’s actions? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/706 "2014-09-17T02:10:04Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Where do you draw the line between being a “loud-mouth rabble rouser” and just being an unpleasant, entitled bitch? The difference is irrelevant in the circumstances we’re talking about. Unpleasant, entitled bitches have the same rights as everyone else. The cops don’t get to police our personalities, regardless of how unpleasant some of them are. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/707 "2014-09-17T02:51:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Poor thing. I guess you don’t remember. > > [The thread where you ilustrate how bad you are with reason.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=373271) Are kidding me? His post was perfectly logical. Someone’s username had unfortunate implications, so he mentioned them, and suggested to the person that they might want to change it. It actually shows him taking something seriously something that technically isn’t against the rules. It’s a great post. Sure, some people thought he was stupid, but just as many agreed with them. Does that somehow prove they are bad with reason, too? You want to say crap about Bricker’s reasoning skills, you have perfect evidence right here. He’s affirming the consequent. Because Crystal Mangrum did turn out to be lying in the Duke Lacrosse rape case, that somehow proves that any argument that she was lying is correct. The argument that racial statistics of rape were relevant in the case in question was in fact false, even if it did happen to lead to the same conclusion as what really happen. The premise was faulty, even if it did lead to the right conclusion. It’s like saying tomorrow is Wednesday because the sky is purple. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/708 "2014-09-17T02:58:00Z")
After listening to the audio & reading the transcripts, I think she is a spoiled, entitled biotch. That said, people like her keep the cops honest, so I applaud her obnoxiousness. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/709 "2014-09-17T03:13:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Thank you for making my point _for_ me. > > Once you refuse to identify yourself to a police officer, the question that officer has to answer changes from “What’s going on here?” to “What is this person hiding?” Do you live in Italy? Because I thought you lived in the US. If you live in the US, perhaps you should consider moving to Italy; I think you’d like their criminal justice system a lot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/710 "2014-09-17T03:21:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think there may be more widespread disagreement about what, exactly, “justice” means in a given situation. Legality tends to be more firmly and objectively defined. > > But let’s imagine a person who prizes justice over legality. > > In this thread, why wouldn’t such a person continue to valorize justice? Why would he (or she) suddenly switch to support of the law? I can only answer for myself. It’s because, absent the law, there is no real justice issue to be had here. Assuming everything that happened was legal, there would be no justice issue. The only reason there is a justice issue at all is because the cops did not perform a legal action. And, even then, the justice issue has to do with motivation. Did the cops just not realize the law, and make a mistake? Or did they know the law, and arrest her just to harass her? The latter is definitely unjust. But I just don’t know if it applies here. I guess we could all make arguments on whether being required to identify yourself is itself an unjust law, but no such law exists in California, so that isn’t an issue here. (Personally I would say it isn’t, as there are cases where it is useful, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be used unjustly by a cop trying to harass someone.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/711 "2014-09-17T03:37:22Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Limited, as in, not allowed to ask for id? Cops are trained to look for suspicious behavior. A person refusing to give their id is suspicious. Don’t you agree? No. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/712 "2014-09-17T03:41:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He had suspicion that prostitution was taking place. Many prostitutes are repeat offenders. Therefore he has reasonable suspicion to believe a felony had occurred. Which is it? Is the prostitution occurring, or had it already occurred? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/713 "2014-09-17T03:49:35Z")
What exactly is the point of asking everyone they come in contact with for ID? Is it just simply fishing for fugitives? I’ve asked this question before but never received an answer, it just seems odd to me that if they aren’t going to arrest someone what the point is. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/714 "2014-09-17T03:57:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > What exactly is the point of asking everyone they come in contact with for ID? Is it just simply fishing for fugitives? I’ve asked this question before but never received an answer, it just seems odd to me that if they aren’t going to arrest someone what the point is. Prior arrests and convictions. If someone has a dozen arrests for prostitution, they are likely a prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/715 "2014-09-17T04:21:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What _law_ prohibits them from detaining her? OMFG ROFLMFAO this is easily the funniest thing I have ever read on the Straight Dope Message Board. I am Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down thereing so hard right now that it’s hard to type properly. It took me like 4 minutes to fix the typos I keeept making because of the constant fits of loud guffaws. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/716 "2014-09-17T04:23:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > People are prosecuted for kidnapping, unlawful detainment, and related charges quite frequently. People like Lovelock Correctional Center Inmate #1027820, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/717 "2014-09-17T04:31:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. The Supreme Court has said that refusing to identify yourself outside a valid Terry stop can’t be required. > > In _Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court_, the Supreme Court said: > > (emphasis added) > > You do agree that the Supreme Court can make those kinds of rules, yes? Has it been noted yet that California does not have, AFAIK, a [Stop And Identify Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes)? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/718 "2014-09-17T04:37:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The question is - can LA police detain possible suspects of a crime until their identity has been established, especially when they walk away from a legitimate interview? No, LA police cannot detain possible suspects of misdemeanor crimes no longer in progress. There is no such thing, AFAIK, as a “legitimate interview”. If the encounter was consensual, i.e. not investigatory in nature, Miss Watts was free to go. If the encounter was compelled, i.e. involuntary, then Miss Watts cannot be compelled to possibly incriminate herself and thus is not required, in the state of California, to even identify herself. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/719 "2014-09-17T04:59:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It applies to the whole country in which stop-and-identify laws exist. CA does not have one, therefore the ruling is irrelevant to CA law. You’re sort of right on this one, but you should also note that the fact that California has no Stop And Identify Law means that Miss Watts did not have to stop and identify herself. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/720 "2014-09-17T05:30:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The suspect claims that she was still making out with her husband/boyfriend/partner/whatever at the time they were approached, so the claim that it was a “complete misdemeanor” holds no water. IF the cops had seen any lewd behavior, they would have had cause to detain and arrest them both. Did the police do that? Why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=37)