# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/61 "2014-09-14T21:21:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I am disappointed in the LAPD for jumping to stupid conclusions. The article does note that Watts refused to show ID, which lead to her being detained until the police could identify her, which was also stupid on her part (though her stupidity doesn’t justify the police’s). At what point does the police have the right to demand ID? SHould be somewhere along about probably cause, shouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/62 "2014-09-14T21:22:15Z")
If the police do something stupid, should you 1. Go along with it, letting them think that what they are doing is not stupid and encouraging them to continue doing it, or 2. Say, “No! Bad Police! That is stupid-don’t do that!” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/63 "2014-09-14T21:22:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the police do something stupid, should you > > 1. Go along with it, letting them think that what they are doing is not stupid and encouraging them to continue doing it, or > 2. Say, “No! Bad Police! That is stupid-don’t do that!” Which choice is less likely to get me handcuffed? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/64 "2014-09-14T21:23:55Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > At what point does the police have the right to demand ID? SHould be somewhere along about probably cause, shouldn’t it? As noted above, the relevant standard is whether the officer can articulate a reasonable suspicion that the suspect has committed a crime or is about to commit a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/65 "2014-09-14T21:24:31Z")
You can set your watch by **Smapti**. > [@XT](#): > > It’s hard for me to believe that the police in California are going to pick up ever black woman with a white man who kiss in public. I’m sure they don’t harass every couple that looks like this. I can believe some cops are more likely to be suspicious of them, and that’s awful. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/66 "2014-09-14T21:25:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the police do something stupid, should you > > 1. Go along with it, letting them think that what they are doing is not stupid and encouraging them to continue doing it, or > 2. Say, “No! Bad Police! That is stupid-don’t do that!” 1 obviously. Geeze, is that even a real question? Have you ever been pulled over by police who think that you are driving a way nicer car than you should be? I have. And you know what I did? Gave them my fucking license and registration, let them run checks on it to their little hearts content, and then took back my ID and drove off, bullet and handcuff free. Is it or was it right or fair? Nope. But unless you WANT to be hassled, handcuffed and maybe tasered or shot it’s best to just go along with them, play their little game, and drive off…and THEN if you want to complain or make a big deal later, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/67 "2014-09-14T21:26:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which choice is less likely to get me handcuffed? Your question seems to be “Which choice is easiest for the police?”, while mine would be “Which choice is right in the long run for society?” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/68 "2014-09-14T21:28:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your question seems to be “Which choice is easiest for the police?”, while mine would be “Which choice is right in the long run for society?” Must _every_ interaction with law enforcement be viewed as an opportunity to martyr yourself on the altar of Social Justice? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/69 "2014-09-14T21:34:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They had a solid reason - they thought she was a prostitute. > > It was a _stupid_ solid reason, but it’s solid nonetheless. If a stupid reason can be solid, then effectively they don’t need any reason at all. They can look at any person, under any circumstances, and imagine a “solid” reason, by this latitude. And apparently they will–at least these particular cops. The only way to rectify this kind of abuse–this kind of loosey-goosey reading of ruling–is for people to call them on their BS. Otherwise it won’t stop–which might be acceptable for those who are never on the receiving end of it, and for whom it’s easy to say, “Why didn’t she just show her ID, and accept the humiliation?” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/70 "2014-09-14T21:36:51Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > If a stupid reason can be solid, then effectively they don’t need any reason at all. They can look at any person, under any circumstances, and imagine a “solid” reason, by this latitude. And apparently they will–at least these particular cops. The only way to rectify this kind of abuse–this kind of loosey-goosey reading of ruling–is for people to call them on their BS. Otherwise it won’t stop–which might be acceptable for those who are never on the receiving end of it, and for whom it’s easy to say, “Why didn’t she just show her ID, and accept the humiliation?” Would she have been any less capable of “calling them on their BS” if she had shown them ID? ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/71 "2014-09-14T21:37:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The article identifies Lucas as her “partner”, not her husband. I’m not sure where the OP got that word from. While this particular article uses the word, “partner,” several other sources identify Brian James Lucas as her husband. > [@](#): > > Watts claims she and husband Brian James Lucas were kissing on a Hollywood street when police were called and they were asked to show their ID cards. [http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/django-unchained-actor-daniele-watts-claims-she-was-handcuffed-detained-by-police-who-thought-she-was-a-prostitute/story-fn907478-1227058401965](http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/django-unchained-actor-daniele-watts-claims-she-was-handcuffed-detained-by-police-who-thought-she-was-a-prostitute/story-fn907478-1227058401965) > [@](#): > > Black actress arrested kissing white husband after police think she’s a prostitute [http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/14/black-actress-arrested-kissing-white-husband-after-police-think-shes-a-prostitute-4868310/](http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/14/black-actress-arrested-kissing-white-husband-after-police-think-shes-a-prostitute-4868310/) > [@](#): > > Hollywood actress was mistaken for a prostitute by the LAPD after she was seen kissing her husband in the street [Daniele Watts: Django Unchained actress detained by Los Angeles police after being mistaken for a prostitute | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/daniele-watts-arrested-django-unchained-actress-detained-in-los-angeles-after-being-mistaken-for-a-prostitute-9731871.html) > [@](#): > > In what seems to be yet another case of police prejudice and brutality, Django Unchained star Daniele Watts and her husband are speaking out about a wrongful arrest, where Studio City Police mistook the couple for a prostitute and her “trick”. [http://theybf.com/2014/09/13/thats-unfortunate-django-unchained-star-daniele-watts-husband-claim-cops-arrested](http://theybf.com/2014/09/13/thats-unfortunate-django-unchained-star-daniele-watts-husband-claim-cops-arrested) > [@](#): > > Daniele Watts, black ‘Django Unchained’ actress, mistaken for prostitute, handcuffed and detained by police after kissing white husband > **[Daniele Watts, black ‘Django Unchained’ actress, mistaken for prostitute,...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/09/15/daniele-watts-black-django-unchained-actress-mistaken-for-prostitute-handcuffed-and-detained-by-police-after-kissing-white-boyfriend/)** > > Los Angeles police are investigating whether race played a role in the handcuffing and detention of a black actress last week after she was spotted kissing a white man in a car. Daniele Watts, who … It doesn’t really matter whether he was her husband or partner, however. In either case, being an inter-racial couple isn’t a crime. I know many people are focusing on her failure to show ID, but that really shouldn’t be an issue, IMO. Also, from the video in the original link, it sounds as if she did try to verbally identify herself. What if she didn’t have ID on her? I know I usually don’t take my purse with me when I go for a walk in the neighborhood. The point is, from what I’ve seen, the police had nothing to base their assumption that she was a prostitute on, other than the fact that she was with a white man, thus no reason to detain and identify her. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/72 "2014-09-14T21:37:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Must _every_ interaction with law enforcement be viewed as an opportunity to martyr yourself on the altar of Social Justice? Nobody’s talking martyrdom, but if your civil rights aren’t worth the slightest bit of inconvenience now and then, a “why” when told to do something, or even a “no” when told to give something that you feel is within your rights to withhold, then what _are_ they worth? Martyrdom? Not necessarily. Just standing up. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/73 "2014-09-14T21:40:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Must _every_ interaction with law enforcement be viewed as an opportunity to martyr yourself on the altar of Social Justice? No, all the ones that don’t end up in the newspaper don’t. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/74 "2014-09-14T21:43:00Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#): > > If Rosa Parks had done what was best for her personally, nothing would have changed. Just to be totally clear: **Smapti** : would you please give your opinion of Ms Parks’ actions? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/75 "2014-09-14T21:47:50Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Just to be totally clear: > > **Smapti** : would you please give your opinion of Ms Parks’ actions? She was breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/76 "2014-09-14T21:49:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nobody’s talking martyrdom, but if your civil rights aren’t worth the slightest bit of inconvenience now and then, a “why” when told to do something, or even a “no” when told to give something that you feel is within your rights to withhold, then what _are_ they worth? Martyrdom? Not necessarily. Just standing up. She had the civil right not to show identification. The police also had the right to verify her identity by other means. Do you suppose that if you are a policeman investigating a potential crime and the suspect refuses to verify that they are who they say they are, “Right, well, on your way then” is a more appropriate response than “Who is this person that doesn’t want the police to know who she is?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/77 "2014-09-14T21:50:27Z")
Perhaps if they only stopped people for _actual_ probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/78 "2014-09-14T21:51:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Just to be totally clear: > > **Smapti** : would you please give your opinion of Ms Parks’ actions? I admire her for what she did. But how would showing her ID have cleared things up? If you deliberately break the law and are willing to face the consequences to get change in, well, that’s a whole 'nother matter. She did the right thing at the right time and she did it knowing what the consequences would be. She is to be admired. But I’m pretty sure if she could have simply cleared things up by showing her ID to the cops or something else like that she would have…and she would be a fool if she didn’t do so when she could have. Doesn’t make what the police were doing right, but it’s foolish to go through all that hassle when simply pulling out your wallet and showing them ID would have cleared things up (and made them look like the horses asses they were). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/79 "2014-09-14T21:52:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She had the civil right not to show identification. The police also had the right to verify her identity by other means. > > Do you suppose that if you are a policeman investigating a potential crime and the suspect refuses to verify that they are who they say they are, “Right, well, on your way then” is a more appropriate response than “Who is this person that doesn’t want the police to know who she is?” What potential crime were they investigating here, again? What they saw were two adults kissing. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/80 "2014-09-14T21:53:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She had the civil right not to show identification. The police also had the right to verify her identity by other means. I’ve asked you twice- can you show me how my interpretation of _Terry_, in which disagree that police have the right to ask for identification in the absence of probable cause or an ongoing investigation, is wrong? If it’s not wrong, then since they didn’t have probable cause (stupid cause isn’t good enough), she didn’t do anything wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=5)