# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/821 "2014-09-17T18:38:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Notwithstanding your assertion that he was not on the building’s property, which has not been established, he was in any event within several feet of it and easily capable of stepping back into it at any time. Would it have been sufficient for you if the police had stood there and watched him to make sure he did not amble back into the area he had been trespassed from, assuming he wasn’t still there? If the police had done that, I’d be fine with it. Instead, they tazered him. > [@](#): > > No, that’s the _definition_ of loitering. This is laughably false. Waiting for one’s children is a perfectly legitimate reason for someone to be in a public place. > [@](#): > > If the security officers weren’t agents of the building as lawful possessor, then the police _were_ agents of the city as lawful possessor. He was trespassing either way. Again – cite that one can trespass in a public place while it’s open to the public. You can’t, because this is yet another ridiculous assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/822 "2014-09-17T18:39:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The police had been informed that he was loitering in an employees-only area of the skywalk and had refused instructions by security to leave. When the police arrived, he was loitering in the same vicinity. > > The police have reasonable suspicion that he was trespassing, as he has refused an order by the lawful possessors of the property to move along, and thus have the authority to detain him per Terry. When you say he was trespassing, what specific crime is that in Minnesota? Do you mean he was violating Minn. Stat. § 609.605 ? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/823 "2014-09-17T18:39:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Tough words from a tough guy. > > You can do that. I think you’re trying to pick a fight… I’m just not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/824 "2014-09-17T18:41:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again – cite that one can trespass in a public place while it’s open to the public. You can’t, because this is yet another ridiculous assertion. The laws of the state of Minnesota define trespassing as “refusing to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor”. The statute does not differentiate between public and private property. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/825 "2014-09-17T18:44:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and obstruction of police business. > > Is it your assertion that none of those things are crimes? “Disorderly conduct” ? He was sitting in an armchair, on his own. Short of being dead and buried, it’s hard to come up with a more orderly course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/826 "2014-09-17T18:44:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The laws of the state of Minnesota define trespassing as “refusing to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor”. > > The statute does not differentiate between public and private property. That’s right, that’s what the law says. But you left some words out, didn’t you? Doesn’t the actual statute say, “… **without claim of right** , refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor?” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/827 "2014-09-17T18:44:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Which is even more reason why tazing the guy was crazy and abusive. If it’s murky, the given of the doubt should be given to the guy who has already left the area in question. > > There was no need for them to escalate things to violence when the issue was not only petty but murky too. Their job is to investigate what happened, not shrug their shoulders and say “I wasn’t sure what was going on, so I left.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/828 "2014-09-17T18:45:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Disorderly conduct” ? He was sitting in an armchair, on his own. Short of being dead and buried, it’s hard to come up with a more orderly course of action. Minnesota law includes among the definitions of disorderly conduct “engaging in offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous, or noisy conduct or in offensive, obscene, or abusive language tending reasonably to arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others.” Which, as can be seen in his own video of the incident, is not an inaccurate description of his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/829 "2014-09-17T18:46:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s right, that’s what the law says. > > But you left some words out, didn’t you? > > Doesn’t the actual statute say, “… **without claim of right** , refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor?” I didn’t feel those words were relevant, because, as a non-employee, he had no claim of right to be on those premises. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/830 "2014-09-17T18:47:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The laws of the state of Minnesota define trespassing as “refusing to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor”. > > The statute does not differentiate between public and private property. [Here](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.605) is the statute. It is clearly talking about private property except in a few instances (public cemeteries, schools, and public areas cordoned off with tape/signs by law enforcement). This skyway does not fit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/831 "2014-09-17T18:48:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I didn’t feel those words were relevant, because, as a non-employee, he had no claim of right to be on those premises. Yes he did, because it was a public place, and he had a legitimate reason to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/832 "2014-09-17T18:48:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Here](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.605) is the statute. It is clearly talking about private property except in a few instances (public cemeteries, schools, and public areas cordoned off with tape/signs by law enforcement). This skyway does not fit. At least part, if not all of, the skyway is property of the building that employed the security guards, as per the cites above, and your claim that it is “clearly talking about private property” is irrelevant to the fact that it does not specifically differentiate between public and private property. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/833 "2014-09-17T18:49:42Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Their job is to investigate what happened, not shrug their shoulders and say “I wasn’t sure what was going on, so I left.” And so the proper course of action was to taze the guy and arrest him? Why did he need to know his name to investigate trespassing? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/834 "2014-09-17T18:50:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes he did, because it was a public place, and he had a legitimate reason to be there. It was an employees-only area, and he was not an employee. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/835 "2014-09-17T18:51:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > At least part, if not all of, the skyway is property of the building that employed the security guards, as per the cites above, The cites above state that he was in the public part of the skyway when the police arrived. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/836 "2014-09-17T18:52:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It was an employees-only area, and he was not an employee. He was not in the employees area when the police arrived. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/837 "2014-09-17T18:54:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The cites above state that he was in the public part of the skyway when the police arrived. The cites above show that he _claims_ he was in the public part of the skyway when the police arrived. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/838 "2014-09-17T18:56:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The cites above show that he _claims_ he was in the public part of the skyway when the police arrived. No one that I’ve seen has claimed anything different. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/839 "2014-09-17T18:58:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The cites above show that he _claims_ he was in the public part of the skyway when the police arrived. Where was he when police arrived? And how do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/840 "2014-09-17T18:58:15Z")
So, anyway, who volunteers to go down to the Ramsey County clerk’s office and acquire some blueprints of the skyway and specific measurements of what areas and easements are the property of whom, then conduct a spatial analysis based on the video evidence to determine whose property the suspect was standing in at what precise moments in time, so we can settle this? …Anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=43)