# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/921 "2014-09-17T20:30:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If the issue was that murky, seems to me the cops should have taken the time to establish whether the area was private or public _first_, before they went after the guy. His name had no bearing on the issue at hand, but whether or not he’d been sitting in a restricted area did have bearing. And if they didn’t take the time to figure that out, they were incompetent as well as abusive. By now, we’ve long since established that the area _was_ private. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/922 "2014-09-17T20:31:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The rule applies to most misdemeanors. The police are permitted an exception if the misdemeanor involves a threat to public safety. (In the Sixth Circuit, that exception doesn’t exist, and what you said is true: the police cannot ever detain anyone for any misdemeanor unless they personally catch the guy in the act. Hmm, I think I should pay more attention to which crimes are misdemeanors. However: > [@](#): > > Note this is discussing Terry stops, and reasonable suspicion. A different analysis exists for probable cause. Why wouldn’t an eyewitness report (i.e… that of the security guard, who (presumably) callled it in) constitute probable cause? (People get tried and convicted on nothing more all the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/923 "2014-09-17T20:32:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which choice is less likely to get me handcuffed? That is a pretty poor display of civic responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/924 "2014-09-17T20:34:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Must _every_ interaction with law enforcement be viewed as an opportunity to martyr yourself on the altar of Social Justice? How many interactions with law enforcement do you have where the cops pull this sort of shit. Its never happened to me. Has it ever happened to you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/925 "2014-09-17T20:36:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Would she have been any less capable of “calling them on their BS” if she had shown them ID? Yes. The pictures of her in handcuffs makes it pretty hard for trhe cops to refute that anything lik this happened. When it comes to he said she said, there are some people who will believe the word of a copover a civilian. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/926 "2014-09-17T20:40:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > By now, we’ve long since established that the area _was_ private. Am I the only one wondering when we’re going to stop treating this bot like it’s a real person? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/927 "2014-09-17T20:41:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How many interactions with law enforcement do you have where the cops pull this sort of shit. Its never happened to me. Has it ever happened to you? The sum total of encounters I’ve had with the police in my lifetime (notwithstanding occasions when I called them myself) have been traffic stops, as follows, in chronological order; - For operating an unsafe vehicle when my old Ford (which would die on me two days later) was spewing so much black smoke out the tailpipe that the officer couldn’t see my taillights. $91 fine. - For driving without my headlights on the night after I bought the car that replaced the old Ford. I showed the officer the sales paperwork and explained to him that in my old car the headlights had always been on when the dash lights were on, and I hadn’t realized I only had the parking lights on because I was driving in a well-lit area. Let off with a warning. - Driving 40 in a 25 zone. My fault, wasn’t paying attention to the speed limit signs, was very apologetic to the officer. He knocked it down to 30 in a 25 zone and gave me a ticket for $101. - Traveling in the left lane on the freeway. Pretty sure the officer just wanted to see if I was drunk (I wasn’t.) Let off with a warning. - Dead headlight. Let off with a warning and an instruction to replace the bulb the next day, which I did. - Same thing, two years later. Same result. - Using a cell phone while driving - I was trying to get directions off the GPS and the cop thought I had been texting. I explained and apologized and was let off with a warning. I’ve never refused to give them my information or been anything but courteous, and I’d say it’s worked a lot better for me than shouting about vaguely-understood rights has for the people we’re discussing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/928 "2014-09-17T20:43:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That is a pretty poor display of civic responsibility. What is more civically responsible than obeying the law and respecting authority? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/929 "2014-09-17T20:43:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here, though, when the police arrived, the man got up and left the contested area. It’s hard to paint a “good faith” veneer on the subsequent police conduct when, even if they thought the area was employee only, they didn’t see the man be told to leave to warn him personally he had to leave. what they saw was him leaving. Well, sort of - the first cop more-or-less escorted him out of the allegedly private area. He didn’t leave on his own. [QUOTE=you with the face] If the issue was that murky, seems to me the cops should have taken the time to establish whether the area was private or public first, before they went after the guy. [/QUOTE] I don’t see any reason to doubt what the security guard said. I would expect the first thing to do is to try to find out who the guy lurking about the lobby after hours is, and what he is up to, especially when he refuses to leave when asked. Not to call up the city attorney and try to get an exact legal definition of every area of the skyways in St Paul. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/930 "2014-09-17T20:49:59Z")
Getting back to the original rant, though, it seems that this wasn’t about kissing your husband in public while black at all. It seems to be more about police officers not knowing the finer points of the law wrt detaining someone who refuses to give their ID. Correct? I mean, first off, from what I’ve been reading, the couple weren’t in fact married, and were in fact having sex in broad daylight, and it was called in by people who were actually watching (and from what I understand, someone snapped some pics or got some video, though I’ve been unable to confirm this yet :p). So, this wasn’t some random cop racially profiling this poor black actress and her boyfriend but instead it’s more about police over stepping their authority when it comes to demanding ID and detaining someone not willing to give it up. Is that a fair summary? I think the case in Minnesota also being discussed makes this point as well…it doesn’t seem to be, strictly speaking (from the cops perspective at least) a racially motivated (well, mainly motivate) episode, but again it has to do with the cops not understanding the limits of their authority. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/931 "2014-09-17T21:01:26Z")
AFAICT that’s a reasonable summary, but it doesn’t make nearly as good a story without the racism angle. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/932 "2014-09-17T21:02:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **Cheesesteak** , what if a person doesn’t have ID? Maybe they left their wallet at home, or maybe they have been living off the grid for the past decade and don’t have one. > > How should a cop respond to a person who says, “I don’t have an ID. But my name is Monstro Jenkins and I live on 123 Mockingbird Lane.” > > Do you really not understand why a black person may not take too well with having to show papers? If I’m sitting in a public area (or in an area that I assume is public) and there are all kinds of people milling about, but I’m the only one being asked to prove I belong there, why wouldn’t I have a bit of an attitude? Why does me having an attitude, but still behaving within the law, warrant me being tazed and arrested? I’m coming at this from the standpoint of the cop having observed the person on the premises that he was accused of trespassing on. In that case, I feel as though the cop has the authority to immediately make an arrest. Now, he plays Make a Deal. You identify yourself, I verify that you don’t have a mess of arrest warrants out for REAL crimes, and we’ll let you go with a warning on the trespass thing, just don’t do it again, OK? I will say this, I feel very different about cops responding to 911 calls vs cops stopping people on the street for random minor offenses like jaywalking, that’s just ripe for abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/933 "2014-09-17T21:02:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > According to the article the police claimed they were there because they got a call about two people in a silver Mercedes who were “involved” in indecent exposure with the door open. As it happened, Watts had been in Lucas’ lap earlier and they had been making out in the car. So unless the officer was lying it doesn’t look to me like they just randomly stopped Watts and Lucas because they were an interracial couple. Yes, but they might have thought she was a prostitute because they were an interacial couple. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/934 "2014-09-17T21:04:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes, but they might have thought she was a prostitute because they were an interacial couple. I believe we’ve established that the “prostitution” thing was ultimately a red herring; the cops never accused her of such, it was the boyfriend who claimed that they _must_ have thought she was a prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/935 "2014-09-17T21:11:27Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > In this case, she was with a white guy who was also stopped, questioned and asked for ID. AFAIK, the only reason he didn’t get cuffed and stuffed was because when the cop asked for ID he said “Here you go, can I leave now?” Do we know she even had ID on her? or are we just assuming that she was being Rosa Parks? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/936 "2014-09-17T21:14:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > By now, we’ve long since established that the area _was_ private. We have not, actually. The City attorney states that this was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/937 "2014-09-17T21:15:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We have not, actually. The City attorney states that this was not the case. Cite for the City Attorney saying that the interior of the bank, which video evidence as cited above has established is where the police encounter began, is public property? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/938 "2014-09-17T21:27:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And why would they think she was a prostitute? What made them think she was a prostitute and all the other women in the area who were with men were not prostitutes? Because she was fucking a guy in a car in a parking lot? What’s hard to understand about that? There are pretty damning pictures and statements from people in the office that called the cops to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/939 "2014-09-17T21:28:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How many interactions with law enforcement do you have where the cops pull this sort of shit. Its never happened to me. Has it ever happened to you? Hasn’t happened to me personally, but then I don’t react this way every time I think some cop may be overstepping his bounds. But from what I’ve observed of other people, this is how cops react 100% of the time in that circumstance. I know a guy whose elderly father (“elderly” meaning mid-60s, probably, at the time) saw his niece stopped at a traffic stop and pulled over to see if he could offer some assistance. Cop told him to buzz off and he started arguing with the cop and next thing you know he was down on the ground with the cop’s knee in his back, getting cuffed. White middle-class guy. Basically the story with cops is that if they tell you something and you don’t listen and they tell you again a few times even more forcefully and you still don’t listen, you are going to be detained, one way or the other. And if you resist being detained you are going to be beaten up or tased or worse. And there is some justification for that, IMO. These cops are not lawyers, and even if they were they don’t have the luxury of searching the net for case history on legal nuances every time they are making a decision as to what to do. If they are to be effective at law enforcement they need to be able to make snap decisions about what is to be done in this situation and then enforce that decision. And if the citizen resists, then they need to override that. There’s no other practical way to police things. You can’t have the cops on the phone with their lawyers in every encounter asking “He said/did such-and-such – what am I allowed to do now?” What breaks down the system is jerks like these two individuals, who are over-protective of their rights or supposed rights and won’t get with the program. Sure the cops will make mistakes, as they may have done in these two instances, but for every time the cops make a mistake of this sort there will be 3 times where the citizen will be the one making the mistake and thinking they have more rights than they actually have. The non-jerk approach to these situations is to swallow your pride a bit and deescalate the situation. In the long run, this approach makes the world a better place for everyone. Now I fully grant that on the whole, cops tend to be power-drunk punks who get their kicks out of lording it over the common people and ordering them around. That’s the main reason a lot of them became cops to begin with. But that’s human nature. You can’t have an effective police force without giving the police some power, and you can’t give the police some power without having the police force attract people who enjoy exercising that power. It’s the price you pay for law and order and as long as it’s confined to minor nuisances of the sort we’re discussing here, it’s a worthwhile price to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/940 "2014-09-17T21:35:22Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Getting back to the original rant, though, it seems that this wasn’t about kissing your husband in public while black at all. It seems to be more about police officers not knowing the finer points of the law wrt detaining someone who refuses to give their ID. Correct? I mean, first off, from what I’ve been reading, the couple weren’t in fact married, and were in fact having sex in broad daylight, and it was called in by people who were actually watching (and from what I understand, someone snapped some pics or got some video, though I’ve been unable to confirm this yet :p). So, this wasn’t some random cop racially profiling this poor black actress and her boyfriend but instead it’s more about police over stepping their authority when it comes to demanding ID and detaining someone not willing to give it up. Not sure about video, but there are pics posted on the TMZ website and statements from eyewitnesses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=48)