# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/81 "2014-09-14T21:56:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What potential crime were they investigating here, again? What they saw were two adults kissing. Read the OP’s link and get back to me on that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/82 "2014-09-14T21:58:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What potential crime were they investigating here, again? What they saw were two adults kissing. Indecent exposure, according to the police statement. I’m not sure why everyone is assuming they were just kissing in the street and random cops approached them for being an interracial couple. If the cops are telling the truth that they were answering a radio call (okay, a big IF), that’s vastly different from just stopping people in the street. What occurred after that may or may not have been justified, but it sounds like their being questioned in the first place probably was. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/83 "2014-09-14T21:58:36Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I’ve asked you twice- can you show me how my interpretation of _Terry_, in which disagree that police have the right to ask for identification in the absence of probable cause or an ongoing investigation, is wrong? > > If it’s not wrong, then since they didn’t have probable cause (stupid cause isn’t good enough), she didn’t do anything wrong. The officer was able to articulate a reasonable suspicion that the suspect has committed a crime or is about to commit a crime, thus he had cause to ask the suspect to identify herself. When she refused, he _then_ had reasonable cause to suspect that she was attempting to conceal the existence of a warrant or arrest record attached to her identity, and thus had the right to detain her and verify her identity. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/84 "2014-09-14T22:03:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The officer was able to articulate a reasonable suspicion that the suspect has committed a crime or is about to commit a crime, thus he had cause to ask the suspect to identify herself. > > When she refused, he _then_ had reasonable cause to suspect that she was attempting to conceal the existence of a warrant or arrest record attached to her identity, and thus had the right to detain her and verify her identity. If that’s all it takes to articulate a reasonable suspicion, then the bar is so low to be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/85 "2014-09-14T22:03:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which choice is less likely to get me handcuffed? What sniveling cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/86 "2014-09-14T22:06:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > What sniveling cowardice. You say “cowardice”; I say “logical self-interest”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/87 "2014-09-14T22:15:53Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > If that’s all it takes to articulate a reasonable suspicion, then the bar is so low to be meaningless. Give lady a prize! It’s probably supposed to be. Here’s betting there was no indecent exposure either. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/88 "2014-09-14T22:24:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Indecent exposure, according to the police statement. I would like to see a copy of the police statement, given that: > [@](#): > > Chicago Tribune reported a Los Angeles Police Department public information officer said there was no record of the incident as Watts was not arrested. [http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/django-unchained-actor-daniele-watts-claims-she-was-handcuffed-detained-by-police-who-thought-she-was-a-prostitute/story-fn907478-1227058401965](http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/django-unchained-actor-daniele-watts-claims-she-was-handcuffed-detained-by-police-who-thought-she-was-a-prostitute/story-fn907478-1227058401965) > [@](#): > > A Los Angeles Police Department public information officer would not comment on Watts’s treatment, telling Variety that there was no record of the incident as Watts was not brought into the station for questioning. > **[Black actress arrested for kissing white husband (police think she's a...](https://metro.co.uk/2014/09/14/black-actress-arrested-kissing-white-husband-after-police-think-shes-a-prostitute-4868310/)** > > Daniele Watts is best known for her role as CoCo in Quentin Tarantino's slavery film Django Unchained. > [@](#): > > The LAPD refused to comment on the incident. > **[Daniele Watts, black ‘Django Unchained’ actress, mistaken for prostitute,...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/09/15/daniele-watts-black-django-unchained-actress-mistaken-for-prostitute-handcuffed-and-detained-by-police-after-kissing-white-boyfriend/)** > > Los Angeles police are investigating whether race played a role in the handcuffing and detention of a black actress last week after she was spotted kissing a white man in a car. Daniele Watts, who … ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/89 "2014-09-14T22:24:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Give lady a prize! It’s probably supposed to be. Here’s betting there was no indecent exposure either. Well, why even _bother_ investigating? Clearly, any time the police have a crime reported to them, they should just assume the caller is a lying racist and go on with whatever they were doing beforehand, lest they commit an egregious offense against some innocent person’s inalienable human rights by asking their name. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/90 "2014-09-14T22:35:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You say “cowardice”; I say “logical self-interest”. Perhaps maintaining her dignity, rather than being an obedient, second-class citizen, was in her greater self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/91 "2014-09-14T22:37:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, why even _bother_ investigating? Clearly, any time the police have a crime reported to them, they should just assume the caller is a lying racist and go on with whatever they were doing beforehand, lest they commit an egregious offense against some innocent person’s inalienable human rights by asking their name. Let’s say you’re a beat cop. You get a call that someone is engaging in public indecency. You get to the location that the dispatcher gave you, and all you see is two adults kissing, which isn’t illegal. Do you: a) Go about your business because there’s clearly nothing illegal going on. b) Roust the couple because, although kissing isn’t illegal, they must have been doing something illegal because there wouldn’t have been a call and hassle them if they won’t cooperate. Show your work. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/92 "2014-09-14T22:48:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, why even _bother_ investigating? Clearly, any time the police have a crime reported to them, they should just assume the caller is a lying racist and go on with whatever they were doing beforehand, lest they commit an egregious offense against some innocent person’s inalienable human rights by asking their name. Nice hyperbole, again. Like I said upthread, police officers are supposed to be trained professionals, capable of using critical thinking skills and judgement. They get a phone call. They go to investigate. They see nothing untoward going on. They leave. I seem to actually believe cops are more capable of doing a good job than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/93 "2014-09-14T23:22:59Z")
I say this: 11900 block of Ventura Boulevard, Studio City CA. _Interacial Kiss-In,_ everybody. _Don’t_ bring ID. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/94 "2014-09-14T23:31:55Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Let’s say you’re a beat cop. You get a call that someone is engaging in public indecency. You get to the location that the dispatcher gave you, and all you see is two adults kissing, which isn’t illegal. Do you: > > a) Go about your business because there’s clearly nothing illegal going on. > b) Roust the couple because, although kissing isn’t illegal, they must have been doing something illegal because there wouldn’t have been a call and hassle them if they won’t cooperate. > > Show your work. Well, I was going to say A, but there’s a catch right? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/95 "2014-09-14T23:50:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No it isn’t, because they cannot back up their suspicion with anything other than “saw black woman kiss white man”. At some point that suspicion is going to be deemed “not reasonable” (like as soon as 4 working brain cells think about it), so no, their “reason” is not solid. They can back up their decision by citing their years of experience as police officers identifying prostitutes. You are not a police officer or a judge, so are in no position to second guess their decision with any legal force. The police officers saw what they believed to be a crime in progress, prostitution. They had justifiable cause to ask for identification when the suspects claimed to be married. They asked for ID for proof of this. They were refused ID. They then had reasonable cause to detain Watts until she could be identified. I’m glad she refused to show ID, as I believe the OP’s position that they say and interracial couple kissing and suspected prostitution was involved. Her refusal to show ID brings the officers actions into the spotlight. If she had shown ID as requested she probably would have been able to walk away suffering the injustice yet another instance of discrimination without anyone ever hearing about it. Much like Rosa Parks she still refused to obey the law. There are and should be consequences for disobeying the law. The only unjust part of this was the police stopping her in the first place. After that is was completely legal and reasonable to detain her for her refusal to show ID. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/96 "2014-09-14T23:59:02Z")
I’m not getting why the cops needed to see her ID anyway. Is there some kind of law of nature that says hookers don’t have IDs? I totally understand why someone wouldn’t want to turn over their ID to a cop that has already proven to be overzealous. They don’t just use an ID to identify someone; they use it to look up your history. So God forbid she’d ever been arrested at one time in her life for hooking (or some other petty crime), because that history would then support the cop’s decision to treat her like a criminal. This story reminds me of another recent story. [A black guy, waiting in a public area for his kids, is accosted and then tazed by cops demanding to see his ID.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/blog/2014/08/27/sitting-while-black-in-minnesota-cops-tase-man-for-not-stating-his-name/) In this situation, what made it so bad is that even though they accused him of trespassing (even though the area was for the public), him simply leaving the area wasn’t good enough for them. They insisted that he show them his ID. In that situation, what purpose does an ID serve? It’s not like them being able to confirm his identity will suddenly make him less of a “trespasser”. It’s obvious they were just looking for an excuse to arrest him for something. It’s easier to fabricate that excuse if the person you’re harassing is black and has an exploitable past. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/97 "2014-09-15T00:02:35Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Much like Rosa Parks she still refused to obey the law. There are and should be consequences for disobeying the law. The only unjust part of this was the police stopping her in the first place. After that is was completely legal and reasonable to detain her for her refusal to show ID. What law did she break? It is not illegal to refuse to show your ID to the police if they ask you for it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/98 "2014-09-15T00:09:13Z")
There’s something we’re missing here. If we want to play the “blame the victim” game correctly, we’ll need to know precisely what she was wearing at the time of the “offense” as well as her complete criminal history, and that of her husband. Who knows? Maybe he has a history of corn-holing hookers. We can’t overlook that kind of exculpatory evidence. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/99 "2014-09-15T00:27:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This story reminds me of another recent story. [A black guy, waiting in a public area for his kids, is accosted and then tazed by cops demanding to see his ID.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/blog/2014/08/27/sitting-while-black-in-minnesota-cops-tase-man-for-not-stating-his-name/) In this situation, what made it so bad is that even though they accused him of trespassing (even though the area was for the public), him simply leaving the area wasn’t good enough for them. They insisted that he show them his ID. In that situation, what purpose does an ID serve? It’s not like them being able to confirm his identity will suddenly make him less of a “trespasser”. It’s obvious they were just looking for an excuse to arrest him for something. It’s easier to fabricate that excuse if the person you’re harassing is black and has an exploitable past. What really made that situation so awful was that his kids witnessed him being tazed and arrested. It’s not enough that that he gets humiliated in front of a bunch of strangers. His kids have to be forced to witness it too. There are people who refuse to have any sympathy for the guy because he was as “stupid” as the lady in this case. These jerks will latch onto anything to keep their Fair World hypothesis intact. Fuck them. And just to add another story to the stinking pile of 'em, I present [lady with three kids](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-police-mistakenly-pull-over-woman-kids-at-gunpoint/). ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/100 "2014-09-15T01:00:20Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > They can back up their decision by citing their years of experience as police officers identifying prostitutes. You are not a police officer or a judge, so are in no position to second guess their decision with any legal force. > > The police officers saw what they believed to be a crime in progress, prostitution. They had justifiable cause to ask for identification when the suspects claimed to be married. They asked for ID for proof of this. They were refused ID. They then had reasonable cause to detain Watts until she could be identified. > > I’m glad she refused to show ID, as I believe the OP’s position that they say and interracial couple kissing and suspected prostitution was involved. Her refusal to show ID brings the officers actions into the spotlight. If she had shown ID as requested she probably would have been able to walk away suffering the injustice yet another instance of discrimination without anyone ever hearing about it. > > Much like Rosa Parks she still refused to obey the law. There are and should be consequences for disobeying the law. The only unjust part of this was the police stopping her in the first place. After that is was completely legal and reasonable to detain her for her refusal to show ID. Just because the police have the power to detain someone for purposes of identifying them doesn’t mean that it’s illegal to not show ID, unless you think it’s illegal to walk around without ID on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=6)