# Kissing your husband while black? Not if the LAPD can help it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492 "2014-09-14T19:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1041 "2014-09-18T16:06:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My bad - this was AM not PM. I’m curious now: what was it you saw in the videos that made you think it was after hours? Was it all the people walking thru the area? The sunlight coming through the door? The fact that the doors were unlocked and in near constant use? Did the time stamp confuse you? What caused you to think this happened “after hours”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1042 "2014-09-18T16:08:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Rights are the privilege of civilized human beings. If you want to act uncivilized, then you’re not entitled to any rights you can’t physically force the rest of the world to acknowledge. I think you’re acting uncivilized. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1043 "2014-09-18T16:11:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And how is it the police’s problem that some of their charges are paranoid and irrational? See, here’s another example of you ignoring that words have meanings and just using them however you want. Like I said, it’s cute in a child; are you a child? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1044 "2014-09-18T16:13:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The government has the same responsibility towards a citizen who is screaming and throwing a tantrum during a police stop as a parent has to a two-year-old who is screaming and throwing a tantrum when told he can’t have any candy. Factually incorrect. You should start every sentence you write with “IMO”, since you want nothing to do with facts. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1045 "2014-09-18T16:14:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I think you’re acting uncivilized. Then you should feel free to enslave him and beat him. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1046 "2014-09-18T16:14:17Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > When it’s material to their investigation. > > The guy’s name, weight, and age were immaterial to whether he was trespassing. I don’t know what is so hard to get about this. The cops in the link were “investigating” Loitering, you don’t need a name to investigate that either. He gave a phony name and they charged him with that act as a crime. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1047 "2014-09-18T16:19:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The cops in the link were “investigating” Loitering, you don’t need a name to investigate that either. He gave a phony name and they charged him with that act as a crime. No, they were investigating Indecent Exposure, and no one gave a Phony name. Watts refused to ID herself, but her husband did. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1048 "2014-09-18T16:19:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Then you should feel free to enslave him and beat him. And once he’s enslaved, assuming you’ve moved to a country in which it’s legal, **Smapti** has stated that it would be wrong to try to help him escape. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1049 "2014-09-18T16:25:21Z")
You should probably change this title to “Banging your husband in public while black? Not if the LAPD can help it.” TMZ had photos last night taken from the street and from an office building above, and people don’t take photos of a couple “kissing”. None of the poses matcher her demonstration for the cameras. They got multiple statements that the car was rocking and the couple was indeed going at it and that’s why the police were called. It got pretty graphic; she was grinding, her breasts were exposed, she cleaned herself with kleenex afterwards, etc. It was a person from that office who went down and asked them to stop, and when they didn’t, that person called the cops. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1050 "2014-09-18T16:28:56Z")
I’m confused…are they married or not? I thought I read he was her boyfriend. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1051 "2014-09-18T16:30:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh. I see now. You’re a troll. Sorry, nope. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1052 "2014-09-18T16:32:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you don’t believe that any police officer in America, in the present day, treats black people differently based on race? I believe there are far more black people who are racist towards the cops than vice versa, and that _actual_ racism by police towards black Americans is exceedingly rare and not the cause of any of the high-profile incidents we’ve seen lately. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1053 "2014-09-18T16:33:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I think you’re acting uncivilized. Noone in this thread is acting uncivilized. Not even the anarchists and terrorist sympathizers. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1054 "2014-09-18T16:34:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m confused…are they married or not? I thought I read he was her boyfriend. 😕 You may be confused as there’s a couple trolls here that keep nattering on about a completely different incident. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1055 "2014-09-18T16:36:01Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Look up “stop and frisk” and see how badly implemented and fraught with racial biases that has been and is ongoing today. The arguments I’ve heard boil down to “Stop-and-frisk is racist because they’re arresting black people for committing crimes”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1056 "2014-09-18T16:37:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > **Bricker** , can I get you to address my question in post #922? > > Because if a report from a witness is “probable cause”, then it would seem that all the analysis here which is based on the premise that this is a Terry stop is moot, and the media legal experts may be right after all. So it would be nice to know. Your post 922: > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why wouldn’t an eyewitness report (i.e… that of the security guard, who (presumably) callled it in) constitute probable cause? (People get tried and convicted on nothing more all the time.) It’s not impossible for this to be true generically. But: Probable cause exists where the facts would lead a person of ordinary care and prudence to entertain an honest and strong suspicion that the person under consideration is guilty of a crime. Each case must be determined on its own facts and circumstances, and the facts present must justify more than mere suspicion but less than a conviction. In applying this test, a court should not be unduly technical and should view the circumstances in light of the whole of the arresting officer’s experience and knowledge as of the time of the arrest. At 9:49:57 on the bank camera’s video timestamp, Lollie leaves. Prior to that point, what facts establish probable cause? I have no idea what the guard reported. It’s possible that he called in a report of a man, explained that he asked the man to leave, and that he had told the man the area was private and that he (the guard) was either the lawful possessor thereof or was authorized by the lawful possessor to demand that trespassers depart. And it’s possible that the dispatcher then communicated to the officer all of that information. But it’s unlikely, because that kind of attention to detail is almost unheard of in these types of incidents. But if, in fact, all that happened, then the officer would have had probable cause for arrest. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1057 "2014-09-18T16:40:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You’re missing the point. Whichever option you choose, it is the legal and moral duty of the cop—as a representative of the government authorized to use force—to retrain his behavior and not escalate without legal justification. That is what the law should enforce. > > Your rubric denies the essential concept of a legal right. I agree with everything you’ve said, and I don’t see how it in any way is relevant to what I said. It’s 100% the case that cops should know the law and follow the law. And it seems fairly well established in the LA case that the cop failed to do so. I think that there’s a distinction between cops who violate laws just because they are self-entitled assholes and don’t give a damn and assume they’ll get away with it (which is something that all decent people should be outraged by) and cops who violate laws due to an honest misunderstanding of the law (which is something that is inevitably going to happen from time to time due to human error), and reasonable people can disagree as to where on that scale they suspect the cop in the LA incident fell – but in neither case is it OK for the cop to have violated the law. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1058 "2014-09-18T16:43:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > At 9:49:57 on the bank camera’s video timestamp, Lollie leaves. … > > I have no idea what the guard reported… There is no bank, no-one named Lollie and no guard. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1059 "2014-09-18T16:47:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You may be confused as there’s a couple trolls here that keep nattering on about a completely different incident. That’s closer to trolling than anything else in this thread. The thread title is what’s confusing about the husband/boyfriend thing, and I suspect you know that, but just wanted to dig at other people. “Troll” does not mean “person I don’t agree with on the internet”. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492/1060 "2014-09-18T16:49:08Z")
There’s something a bit weird about the legal status of cases like the LA one, which is that assuming my understanding of the law as described by Bricker et al is now correct, there’s a weird situation where a person literally can NOT possibly know what their rights are. Do you have the right to refuse to provide your ID to cops who ask for it? Well, that depends on whether the cops have the right to ask for it. Do they have the right to ask for it? Well, that depends on why they’re talking to you. Why are they talking to you? Well, that depends on information that you do not have. For instance, let’s say the cops get a call that a 40-something white guy wearing a Red Sox shirt and a blue baseball cap just held up a convenience store at gunpoint. And they drive to the area, and they see a 40-something white guy wearing a Red Sox shirt and a blue baseball cap. If my understanding of the earlier legal discussion is correct, they DO have the right to detain him temporarily, verify his ID, etc., because they have some kind of reasonable belief that there was a felony committed and he might have been involved. Of course, HE doesn’t know that. As far as he knows, assuming he’s a random innocent guy unlucky enough to be wearing the wrong clothes in the wrong place, the cops are overstepping their rights by detaining him and requiring that he provide ID. Are the cops legally required to tell him WHY they’re asking for his ID? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kissing-your-husband-while-black-not-if-the-lapd-can-help-it/698492.md?page=54)