# Klingon question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 17, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248 "2003-07-17T23:08:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/1 "2003-07-17T23:08:09Z")
I will admit I know 'nuthin about Star Trek. But, as a young lad I remember watching Trek with my dad (He loved it) and the Klingons had smooth heads and when Star Trek the motion picture came out my father and I went to see it and the Klingons had “lumpy” heads…what gives? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/2 "2003-07-17T23:16:02Z")
They evolved. Actually, make up artists and special effects evolved. They had a pretty low budget in 1966. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/3 "2003-07-17T23:16:03Z")
It is not discussed in public. 😃 Better answer: improvements in makeup effects. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/4 "2003-07-17T23:23:07Z")
Yea but they still have SOME kind of explanation Huh?.. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/5 "2003-07-17T23:25:28Z")
Actually, no. There was a DS9 episode where they went back to the time of the original series, saw the original series Klingons, and asked Worf what had happened. All he said was that Klingons don’t discuss it. I can only assume that their warrior culture forbids them to own up to massive continuity errors. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/6 "2003-07-17T23:27:14Z")
There was some ref works from people working on Treks aboot Hybrids and what not, but canon is silent on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/7 "2003-07-17T23:30:27Z")
Oh…OK ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/8 "2003-07-17T23:41:21Z")
I wanted to hit Worf at that moment. I thought maybe they’d come up with a canon reason, but nope. Heck, on DS9 when they brought back Klingons who were originally on the old show (guess they live a long time) they suddenly had the foreheads. Maybe it’s a problem with our TVs? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/9 "2003-07-18T00:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whiterabbit \* > \*\*Maybe it’s a problem with our TVs? 🙂 \*\* Nah, videotape. Back in the '60s videotape just didn’t have the resolution to capture the forehead ridges. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/10 "2003-07-18T01:43:21Z")
It’s been a long time since I was a fan, but I seem to remember a reference in one of the books to the fact that there were two races of Klingons. The human-er-looking ones were holding most of the power in the Kirk era, then there was an ugly conflict of some sort, and the bumpy-headed ones became the dominant race. You know, like, if you watched 1950’s television, you might not realize that human beings came in assorted colors… Well, it sounded plausible to me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/11 "2003-07-18T03:29:26Z")
Okay, here is what Michael Okuda had to say in _The Star Trek Encyclopedia_ under the heading “Klingons” > [@](#): > > Klingons were first seen in _Errand of Mercy_ (TOS), and throughout the Original _Star Trek_ series. At the time, they appeared as fairly ordinary humans with heavy makeup and mustaches. Beginning with _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_, improved makeup techniques (and bigger budgets) led to their present elaborate forehead designs. The differnces between the two types of Klingons have never definatively explained on the show, although Worf, in _Trials and Tribble-lations_ (DS9), made it very clear that this is not something that Klingons discuss with outsiders. The issue was further complicated when three Klingons, Kor, Koloth, and Kang, who had appeared in the original series with the original makeup design, appeared on _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_ wearing the motion-picture-style Klingon foreheads. In another book I can’t find right now (still packed, I guess), Gene had wanted to “improve” the Klingons for the new series _Star Trek II_, and would include in a story somewhere down the line an explanation for the differences. Since the new series never came about, instead being reworked into _ST:TMP_, this idea of The Bird’s was lost and he never got around to it on _ST:TNG_ because he was possibly getting a little obsessed with his “technology unchained” vision of a future utopia and clearer heads wanted some action in the stories. And now, in _Enterprise_, the Klingons have ridges. Also, remember that the books (with a couple of exceptions that **Aes** can provide) are not canon in _Star Trek_. So, for all intents and purposes, it really was all about budgets and makeup techniques. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/12 "2003-07-18T04:09:47Z")
I still want an explanation. [Kirk]I want ANSWERS![/Kirk] I’m waiting… ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/13 "2003-07-18T04:22:19Z")
[Here’s more than you’d ever want to know about the inconsistency between TOS and TNG/DS9 Klingon foreheads.](http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies1a.htm) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/14 "2003-07-18T23:30:12Z")
I thought the “official” answer was that the smooth-browed Klingons were Klingons who went through plastic surgery to disguise their looks, and make it easier to infiltrate human society. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/15 "2003-07-18T23:35:10Z")
Nope. The official answer is no answer. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-question/189248/16 "2003-07-19T01:52:09Z")
It is a bit of revisionism on the part of the Roddenberry camp to say he wanted the foreheads from the beginning, or it was his idea. On the SE DVD of “The Motion Picture,” one of the make-up guys or one of the producers said GR didn’t like the idea of changing the Klingons at all, but finally gave in. Of course, it later became “his idea all along.” Sir Rhosis