# Klingon strength level? (and Vulcans...)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 29, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260 "2005-11-29T20:19:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/1 "2005-11-29T20:19:12Z")
In the Star Trek universe, the Klingons had the reputation of being very fierce warriors. However, I am unclear as to whether they were supposed to be significantly stronger than normal humans. The Vulcans definitely had strength which surpassed Eerthlings – but I am not sure by how much! Can any one clear this up for me? What is the “straight dope” on Vulcan and Klingon strength levels?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/2 "2005-11-29T21:12:23Z")
Well, keep in mind that our samples are biased. We only tend to see characters who are members of their respective militaries, and presumably were selected for physical prowess and given additional training.
The original series Klingons seemed equivalent to humans for strength. Offhand, I can’t think of a time when a Klingon character displayed anything that seemed particularly unexpected.
Among original series Vulcans, we only have Spock and Surak, each of whom showed casual above-average-human strength. Spock’s most impressive single display, I’d guess, was bending a metal bar into a V-shape with one blow, while enraged by Kirk.
Romulans, unclear. Kirk was able to knock one out rather casually with a boot to the head.
The movies didn’t help. Young Spock on Genesis casually threw a Klingon warrior, but Saavik was completely ineffective. Klingons were fierce, but didn’t seem exceptionally strong.
In TNG and beyond, Worf is tough, but his main role is to get beaten up by the guest alien, in order to show how tough the alien is. The Ferengi, in their first appearance, were described by Data as “stronger than they look”, but nothing came of it after that first episode. We didn’t get another recurring Vulcan character until Voyager’s Tuvok, and he seemed as strong as the story required, and defeated as the story required (much like Worf, actually). Half-Klingon B’ellana wasn’t so much strong as able to go berserker at will.
Like warp speed, super strength is at the whim of the writer.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/3 "2005-11-29T21:17:06Z")
This isn’t specifically strength, but an important thing to note about Klingons is pretty much all of their vital organs have redundancies - usually there’s a couple or a few of them, and some organs can take over the work of another. So when a Klingon’s in battle, what might be a mortal blow for anyone else won’t necessarily be for them.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/4 "2005-11-29T21:33:52Z")
Xenobiology Database
[Vulcans](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4156/infirmary/xeno/vulcan.html)
[Klingons](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4156/infirmary/xeno/klingon.html)
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/5 "2005-11-29T22:05:12Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> Offhand, I can’t think of a time when a Klingon character displayed anything that seemed particularly unexpected.
Kang slaps Kirk on the back in a friendly fashion in _Day of the Dove_ and Kirk staggers.
However, in _The Trouble With Tribbles_ bar fight, humans and Klingons seem to be equally matched.
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### Author:  [@priapus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/priapus)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/6 "2005-11-29T22:09:14Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> In TNG and beyond, Worf is tough, but his main role is to get beaten up by the guest alien, in order to show how tough the alien is. The Ferengi, in their first appearance, were described by Data as “stronger than they look”, but nothing came of it after that first episode. We didn’t get another recurring Vulcan character until Voyager’s Tuvok, and he seemed as strong as the story required, and defeated as the story required (much like Worf, actually). Half-Klingon B’ellana wasn’t so much strong as able to go berserker at will.
>
> Like warp speed, super strength is at the whim of the writer.
Worf is the Nick Barkley of outer space
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### Author:  [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/7 "2005-11-29T23:01:12Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#):
>
> This isn’t specifically strength, but an important thing to note about Klingons is pretty much all of their vital organs have redundancies - usually there’s a couple or a few of them, and some organs can take over the work of another. So when a Klingon’s in battle, what might be a mortal blow for anyone else won’t necessarily be for them.
Maybe that explains [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347087) to BrainGlutton?
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/8 "2005-11-29T23:11:55Z")
Also in “Mirror, Mirror”, the mirror-Spock was able to stand up to several humans at once in a fist-fight, and was getting rather the better of it until McCoy beaned him with a solid object. In “Bread and Circuses”, Spock easily stood off a trained gladiator and could doubtless have beaten him without working up a sweat had his pacifist convictions not restrained him. (This makes his poor performance in “The Savage Curtain” rather hard to explain.)
In “Day of the Dove”, I expect Kirk was not expecting to be slapped heartily on the back, and that accounted for his staggering rather more than any Klingon super-strength. The rest of the episode had humans going toe to toe with Klingons and performing more or less as well as them.
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### Author:  [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/9 "2005-11-30T01:16:50Z")
You forgot Sarek, too–he was able to throw off the enraged Tellarite Ambassador with one quick martial arts move.
Of course, maybe Tellarites have the strength of tissue paper, but…
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/10 "2005-11-30T04:15:42Z")
The events of AMOK TIME notwithstanding, Vulcans–or at least Spock–are enormously stronger than humans, so much stronger that hand-to-hand between the races is ridiculous. In THE NAKED TIME, for instance, Kirk punches Spock at least twice, very hard, and the science officer scarcely notices; whereas a casual backhand from Mr. Spock sends the captain flying across the room. And in THE PARADISE SYNDROME, Kirk goads Spock into a fistfight while armed with a metal rod which spock casually bends into a V shape. I also seem to recall a DS9 episode in which the station crew, playing baseball with a team of Vulcans, is utterly massacred because of the Vulcans vastly greater physical speed and strength. I’ve always thought of them of having chimpanzee-type strength.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/11 "2005-11-30T04:20:43Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#):
>
> I also seem to recall a DS9 episode in which the station crew, playing baseball with a team of Vulcans, is utterly massacred because of the Vulcans vastly greater physical speed and strength.
Some of that was physics and a knowledge of ballistics.
T’Pol was regularly overpowered by bad guys, human and alien. Quite easily, as though she were a skinny human with lip implants rather than a Vulcan.
^ :dubious: ^
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/12 "2005-11-30T04:36:39Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#):
>
> The events of AMOK TIME notwithstanding, Vulcans–or at least Spock–are enormously stronger than humans, so much stronger that hand-to-hand between the races is ridiculous. In THE NAKED TIME, for instance, Kirk punches Spock at least twice, very hard, and the science officer scarcely notices; whereas a casual backhand from Mr. Spock sends the captain flying across the room. And in THE PARADISE SYNDROME, Kirk goads Spock into a fistfight while armed with a metal rod which spock casually bends into a V shape. I also seem to recall a DS9 episode in which the station crew, playing baseball with a team of Vulcans, is utterly massacred because of the Vulcans vastly greater physical speed and strength. I’ve always thought of them of having chimpanzee-type strength.
Vulcans never stuck me as particularly fast and there is that scene in the gym section where T’Pol acknowledges that Archer has more stamina than she does in running.
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/13 "2005-11-30T04:38:21Z")
> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> Also in “Mirror, Mirror”, the mirror-Spock was able to stand up to several humans at once in a fist-fight, and was getting rather the better of it until McCoy beaned him with a solid object.
It was Kirk who did that.
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### Author:  [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/14 "2005-11-30T05:50:43Z")
Maybe Vulcan men have chimpanzee strength, but Vulcan women are weaklings?
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/15 "2005-11-30T11:41:58Z")
> [@JThunder](#):
>
> It was Kirk who did that.
Mf. Time I re-watched the video, evidently.
The issue of Romulan strength was addressed in _The Price of the Phoenix_ and _The Fate of the Phoenix_, and it was clearly on a par with Vulcans. Of course, those novels aren’t canon (the issue whether they, along with Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath, should be taken out and shot, is outside the scope of this thread).
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### Author:  [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/16 "2005-11-30T12:14:51Z")
In a DS9 episode Sisko relates when he was a dumb cadet he challenged a Vulcan to a wrestling match and lost, his girlfriend Cassidy Yates was incredulous, “Ben Vulcans have four times the strength of a human.”
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/17 "2005-11-30T14:27:02Z")
On further reflection, Spock does beat the crap outta everybody when he goes nuts in “Is There in Truth No Beauty”, is on the verge of crushing Scotty’s skull in “Day of the Dove” and was able to easily snap medical restraints on at least one occasion.
He’s oddly passive, even clumsy, at other times.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/18 "2005-11-30T14:40:27Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> even clumsy, at other times.
Say what?
^ :dubious: ^
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/19 "2005-11-30T14:52:11Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> Say what?
> ^ :dubious: ^
Well, the classic example is his “mega-duh” moment in “Whom Gods Destroy”. “Okay, gents, I dunno which one of you is Capt. Kirk, so I’ll just wait around and sit down with my back to you…”
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klingon-strength-level-and-vulcans/333260/20 "2005-11-30T16:11:56Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> “Okay, gents, I dunno which one of you is Capt. Kirk, so I’ll just wait around and sit down with my back to you…”
Obviously a clever ruse on his part… Probably.
Most likely.
I should think so, anyway.
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