# Klu Klux Klan - Terrorist Organization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787 "2003-01-05T16:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/1 "2003-01-05T16:42:29Z")
[This link](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAkkk.htm) describes the history of the KKK. Looking at their behavior over the years they are clearly a terrorist organization. Unfortunately they weren’t decimated in the way that the Black Panther Party was, primarily because they were White and had widespread support in law enforcement, since some other their members were involved in law enforcement and held high political offices. I say the KKK is a terrorist organization and anyone still associated or that sympathizes with the organization is a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. What say you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/2 "2003-01-05T16:53:00Z")
I agree. They are at least as much a terrorist organization as any of the Muslim groups which have been harrassed domestically by the Bushies, but it is painfully obvious that the “war on terror” is really just a war on Islamic radicals. They clearly have no intention of going after the homegrown Timothy McVeigh/ Eric Rudolph brand of terrorism. I guess they don’t want to embarrass Trent Lott’s friends. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/3 "2003-01-05T17:02:20Z")
Anyone who sympathizes with s terrorist is a terrorist sympathizer? Well, duh! ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/4 "2003-01-05T17:10:30Z")
Yes, the Ku Klux Klan is, imo, a terrorist organization. It is possible that they are no longer involved in church bombings, lynchings, and these types of activities. Then again, I would not be surprised. I think that they have fewer members, if any, in law enforcement or elected positions. I just googled Ku Klux Klan. It was pretty spooky. You can print an application and send them a photo +$20.00 to join. I would imagine these groups are being monitored by law enforcement. Possibly they are routinely infiltrated by plants. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/5 "2003-01-05T17:53:03Z")
You people are all far too quick to jump on the fingerpointing “oh, yeah, they’re terrorists all right” bandwagon. Let’s be logical about this. The official DoD definition of Terrorism. [http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/bpart1.html](http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/bpart1.html) > [@](#): > > The DOD definition of terrorism is “the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.” > > This definition was carefully crafted to distinguish between terrorism and other kinds of violence. The act of terrorism is defined independent of the cause that motivates it. People employ terrorist violence in the name of many causes. The tendency to label as terrorism any violent act of which we do not approve is erroneous. Terrorism is a specific kind of violence. Now I dunno, for me it’s kind of a stretch to fit the KKK into that. I don’t see a “calculated use of violence designed to instill fear or coerce governments or societies” in their corporate behavior–I just see a group whose members have indulged in mob behavior. But just because some members of a group performed acts of violence doesn’t mean that the group as a whole should be officially assumed to be advocating said violence. (See the Pit thread on Promise Keepers.) I don’t see that the KKK is organized in terms of specific agendas of “stuff they want to change in U.S. society, and how exactly they’re going to go about implementing those changes **with violence.** ” Actually, if there’s anything in the KKK’s official credo that specifically advocates violence, I’d be very surprised to hear it. From their national website (watch out, it’s gonna play “My Country Tis Of thee” at you, which is very amusing, considering that it’s actually the tune to “God Save The King”.) [http://www.kukluxklan.org/whatis.htm](http://www.kukluxklan.org/whatis.htm) > [@](#): > > What is Our Goal > > The time in which we live is very exciting and any like minded individual would be proud to be an associate or supporter of this grass-roots movement to take back America. The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan will in the years to come, become recognized by the American people as THE WHITE RIGHTS MOVEMENT! Where ever they live, whatever their personal religious denomination may be, no matter what present political or fraternal organization they may be with, everyone should support the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan as the political PARTY of the future and the the Last Hope for America. The Knights Party, realizing that to achieve true security for our people we must achieve political power in the United States, will: > > A. Become the leader of the White racialist movement > > Through a strong organized show of leadership > > Through the training and use of qualified media representatives > > Through a concerted effort of all Klansmen and Klanswomen to carefully follow instructions, suggestions, and guidelines as set by headquarters and to continually strive to be THE BEST > > B. Strive to become the representative and driving force behind the White Community > > Through large organized public rallies > > Through an aggressive use of television, radio, and print advertising > > Through huge nationwide literature drives in which millions of people are reached with our literature. > > To legally break through the liberal wall that surrounds America’s colleges and universities - to reach and instruct students in the reclaiming of their schools. > > Through the effective use of project committees to assist in the re-education of law enforcement agencies and the educational establishment. These two very important groups must be given another side of the story instead of only receiving information from organizations such as the ADL, NAACP, and Klanwatch. > > C. Organize and direct white people to a level of activism necessary to bring about a political victory. > > Through the organizing and maintenance of strong local units. > > Through bold public relations campaigns focusing on two main ideas: > > The White Christian people have been betrayed by our nations political, economic, educational, and religious leaders > > The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Party is the last hope for America. > > Through the aggressive and combined effort of Knights’ units (The core of the grassroots movement) to work within their community in all aspects of a political campaign, including but not limited to: > > Getting literature into the hands of everyone in the community. > > Keeping the name "Knights of the Ku Klux Klan " in continual high profile. > > Sponsoring ads in local newspapers and on local radio and television networks. > > Working on petition drives to achieve ballot access for Klansmen or Klanswomen who run for either local, state, or federal offices; such as school board, mayor, state representative, congress, senate, etc. > > Conducting community goodwill projects. > > Organizing and working on “get to the polls” campaigns, to insure that everyone who will vote in our favor can have the opportunity to do so. > > Recruiting new associates and volunteers for The Knights Party ( Knights of the Ku Klux Klan) who will work toward the election of Klansmen and Klanswomen to public office. > > We must take back control of OUR U.S. government. We intend to put Klansmen and Klanswomen in office all the way from the local school board to the White House! > > WHAT IS OUR GOAL ? > > POLITICAL POWER I don’t see anything there that would be inappropriate for any other American political party. “We’re gonna get out the vote and do community relations, change our government!” And FTR, I sympathize with them the same way I sympathize with the Libertarian Party, or the Green Party, or the American Communist Party (assuming there is one somewhere 😃 ), in other words, any other fringe political group (sorry, Lib 😃 ) that doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell of getting any of their agenda passed into Mainstream America. ---
**Author:** ![Hickory6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@Hickory6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hickory6)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/6 "2003-01-05T18:15:15Z")
There is no doubt that the KKK was a terrorist organization. Is it still? Do they still advocate violence? I don’t know. I think the burden of proof is on the accuser. Are there recent examples of the KKK organizing and plotting (or executing) terrorist activities? I’m not talking about random idiots acting on their own. What evidence is there that the KKK itself continues to actively pursue terrorist activities? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/7 "2003-01-05T18:30:44Z")
Beyond what **DDG** has pointed out, it should be noted that even with “terrorist” intents, the Klan is no longer an _effective_ terrorist threat. In the 1950s and 1960s, the Klan probably should have been treated as terrorists (and, to a limited extent, it was). However, partly through the efforts of the SPLC to bankrupt several of their Kovens when they _did_ engage in violence and mostly through the general disapproval of society since the acceptance (if grudging) of the Civil Rights movement, the Klan has become little more than a shelter for white guys, frightened by the world, to get together and commiserate with each other over the terrible way that the world treats white guys. The Klan has a long and violent past, but even the acts for which the SPLC was able to sue them in the last 20 years tended to be sporadic events rather than planned campaigns of terror. The National Alliance and the Aryan Brotherhood and similar groups actually recruit against the Klan as being ineffective. Unless some dynamic leader arises to galvanize the group to repeat the violence of their past, I don’t think we should be harrassing them and raising their level of paranoia. Certainly, we should keep an eye on all such hate groups to be aware if they _do_ turn to violence, but I cannot see that actions against the Klan are warranted at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/8 "2003-01-05T18:38:13Z")
The KKK exactly fit into **DDG** quoted definition: > [@](#): > > The DOD definition of terrorism is “the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.” The KKK uses violence and the threat of violence to induce fear in a society (the society of African-Americans). The fact that the KKK’s website may say differently means nothing. Anyone with any knowledge of history knows what the KKK do - and it’s clearly terrorism based on the above definition. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/9 "2003-01-05T18:49:46Z")
Do you have any examples of recent terrorist acts by the Klan? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/10 "2003-01-05T19:05:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > They clearly have no intention of going after the homegrown Timothy McVeigh/ Eric Rudolph brand of terrorism. Timothy McVeigh is dead, having been put to death by the United States government. I suppose one could argue that they haven’t caught Eric Rudolph yet because they secretly don’t want to, but as far as I can tell it’s just a case of him successfully eluding capture. If they ever do catch him, I expect they’ll kill him too. As for the Klan, I generally agree with **Hickory6** and **tomndebb** –certainly there have been organizations in the past under that name which were blatantly terrorist organizations, and for a long time law enforcement in much of the country turned a blind eye to this or actively collaborated with the terrorists. But the KKK these days is fairly toothless; another point is that it’s far from unitary any more–the Secret White Invisible Hooded Empire of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klax Klan, Inc., may be a genuine terrorist organization, but the American Knights of the Fiery Cross of the Ku Klux Klan (U.S.A.) may just be a bunch of nitwits who get together to wear bedsheets, drink beer, set fire to lumber, and bitch about how their own lack of social, economic, or romantic opportunity is the fault of members of other racial, ethnic, or religious groups. I’m pretty sure the FBI keeps an eye on all of these guys, which is as it should be. Other than that, what would anyone recommend? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/11 "2003-01-05T19:17:02Z")
Avumede: You’re missing the crucial modifier “calculated”. “Calculated” means the group’s organization sits down and plans a campaign of terror, specifically designed to strike fear and trembling into people’s hearts. Got any cite for the KKK doing that recently? When I google “Klan violence”, all that comes up are cites referring to past historic violence, ending with the 1920s. When I google “kkk violence”, what comes up are references to demonstrations at rallies, not bombings and lynchings and arson. [http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001222/uskkkviolence.shtml](http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001222/uskkkviolence.shtml) > [@](#): > > Violence at KKK rally vexes Jewish leaders > PAULINE DUBKIN YEARWOOD > > Chicago Jewish News > > CHICAGO (JTA) – Ignoring the advice of clergy and community leaders, about 400 protesters showed up at a Ku Klux Klan rally here last weekend that ended in a series of skirmishes between police and counterdemonstrators. > > Police kept an angry crowd 500 yards away from the approximately 20 Klan members during 45 minutes of anti-Jewish and anti-African-American speeches at Saturday’s rally in Skokie. And the perps here are the demonstrators, not the KKK. [http://www.altered.com/dengue/kkk/events.htm](http://www.altered.com/dengue/kkk/events.htm) > [@](#): > > Klan Rally in Washington DC in 1982: [from Christian Science Monitor] > November 29, 1982 > > Anti-Ku Klux Klan demonstrators hurled bricks, rocks, and bottles at police and overturned cars Saturday in a rash of violence triggered by the first Klan rally in the nation’s capital in 57 years. > At least 38 people were arrested during the two hours of violence that followed the peaceful KKK rally across the street from the White House. The 300 police officers were commended for preventing further destruction. > > Violent Klan Rally: [from Christian Science Monitor] > March 23, 1981 > > About two dozen hooded Ku Klux Klan members were pelted with rocks and bricks here Saturday in a violent confrontation with about 200 counter-demonstrators. At least eight people were injured, one seriously. At least two policemen were among the injured in the violence outside the Meriden City Hall [in Conneticut], where the Klan had rallied in support of the police. > The protesters included members of the International Committee Against Racism, a self-avowed, violent anti-Klan group. The state group is made up mostly of young blacks and Hispani cs from the inner city. Throwing bricks at police is hardly “terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/12 "2003-01-05T22:40:13Z")
I agree, they are not _terrifying_ anymore. When they come here to demonstrate, nobody turns out to watch them march any more. Used to be, the black folks would turn out to show solidarity. Now they just ignore them. The media doesn’t even hardly show up anymore. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/13 "2003-01-06T01:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **Avumede: You’re missing the crucial modifier “calculated”. “Calculated” means the group’s organization sits down and plans a campaign of terror, specifically designed to strike fear and trembling into people’s hearts. Got any cite for the KKK doing that recently?** Who knows if they are doing it now, but they were clearly doing it then. Their actions, lynchings, bombings, cross burnings, are things that are clearly calculated with the intention to cause terror, fear and trembling in the hearts of Black americans. When did they get a clean bill of health with respect to being terrorist? > [@](#): > > \*\* > When I google “Klan violence”, all that comes up are cites referring to past historic violence, ending with the 1920s. When I google “kkk violence”, what comes up are references to demonstrations at rallies, not bombings and lynchings and arson. > > [http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001222/uskkkviolence.shtml](http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001222/uskkkviolence.shtml) > And the perps here are the demonstrators, not the KKK. > > [http://www.altered.com/dengue/kkk/events.htm](http://www.altered.com/dengue/kkk/events.htm) > Throwing bricks at police is hardly “terrorism”. \*\* [How about this?](http://www.tryoung.com/archives/125kkk.html) > [@](#): > > \*\* > A few examples of Klanworld violence will be mentioned to better indicate the types of violent activities and the reasons for their instigation. On October 13, 1982, Klansmen protested the conversion of a mental institution into a prison in order to keep black inmates and prison employees out of the rural community of Gowanda, New York by burning a fifteen foot cross at the site of the future penal institution (Klanwatch Intelligence Report, No. 6, 1982:9). Vietnamese fishermen were attacked repeatedly by the Klan off the Texas Gulf Coast from February to May 1978 to prevent “overfishing” (Klanwatch Intelligence Report, no date:2). Two Klansmen were arrested for the murder of a “19 year old black man in Mobile in 1981.” Apparently, the selection of the murdered Michael McDonald was random, but the violence was directed toward the mistrial of a black man charged with the murder of a police sergeant (National Anti-Klan Network Newsletter, Fall, 1983:6). > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/14 "2003-01-06T04:02:43Z")
What all three of those examples lack, conspicuously, is any kind of indication that they were **organized** , deliberately, by the national organization as a **calculated** attempt to **further the KKK’s national political agenda.** Which would have counted as “terrorism”. They didn’t do that. Therefore none of these acts count as “terrorism” and the KKK is still not proven to be a “terrorist” organization. FTR, the only cite on the Web for the Gowanda cross-burning is just the one reference on your [tryoung.com](http://tryoung.com) website. The Klansmen who harassed the Vietnamese fishermen were tried for intimidation–and lost. [http://www.handsonenglish.com/curr/Aug98.html](http://www.handsonenglish.com/curr/Aug98.html) > [@](#): > > Hate crimes have been much in the news lately, and this case offers a good opportunity to discuss this issue with your ESL students. We have prepared a short reading passage about the church-burning story, with some suggested discussion points at the end. We hope the discussion will allow your students to draw on their own experiences both in this country and in their home countries. > > Your students might be interested to know that the lawyer in this case (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Alabama) was also involved in a case in 1981 in which Vietnamese fishermen in Texas were being harrassed by the KKK. These fishermen were successful in their case and were able to continue pursuing their occupation. [http://www.dickgregory.com/dick/2\_kukluxklan.html](http://www.dickgregory.com/dick/2_kukluxklan.html) > [@](#): > > Charles Lee, head of the Knights of the White Camelia KKK…was among the Klansmen tried in 1981 on charges of intimidating Vietnamese fishermen in Galveston Bay. The court later ordered Lee to shut down Klan paramilitary schools that offered weapons training in east Texas. [http://www.splcenter.org/cgi-bin/goframe.pl?refname=/legalaction/la-2.html](http://www.splcenter.org/cgi-bin/goframe.pl?refname=/legalaction/la-2.html) > [@](#): > > Protecting Vietnamese Fishermen From the Klan > > Texas Klansmen in 1981 tried to destroy the fishing business of Vietnamese immigrants by burning their boats and threatening their lives. Armed Klansmen cruised Galveston Bay and practiced guerrilla tactics at secret paramilitary camps. > > The [Southern Poverty Law] Center intervened and convinced the Vietnamese fishermen to stand up for their rights. Center attorneys filed a lawsuit that halted the Knights of the KKK terror campaign and shut down its paramilitary training bases. You would have to show that this “terror campaign” was organized for the specific purpose of furthering a political agenda, and it wasn’t–it was solely aimed at intimidating a small group of people, the Vietnamese fishermen. And as for the murderer of Michael Donald (not “McDonald”), he was executed a few years ago. And it says he was an “ex-Klansman”. [http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/06/briefs/klan.execution/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/06/briefs/klan.execution/index.html) > [@](#): > > Alabama executes ex-Klansman for lynching > June 6, 1997 > Web posted at: 2:14 p.m. EDT (1814 GMT) > > ATMORE, Alabama (CNN) – A former Ku Klux Klansman convicted of killing a black teen-ager was put to death in Alabama’s electric chair Friday in the state’s first execution for a white-on-black crime in 84 years. > > Henry Francis Hays, 42, was convicted of the 1981 lynching-style murder of Michael Donald, who was abducted at random from a Mobile street, beaten, slashed and strangled, and his body hanged from a tree. > > \< snip \> > > Prosecutors said Klan leaders, including Hays’ father, ordered Donald’s killing “to show Klan strength in Alabama” after a jury deadlocked in the trial of a black man charged with killing a white policeman. [http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdonaldD.htm](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdonaldD.htm) > [@](#): > > In 1981 the trial of Josephus Andersonan, an African American charged with the murder of a white policeman, took place in Mobile. At the end of the case the jury was unable to reach a verdict. This upset members of the Ku Klux Klan who believed that the reason for this was that some members of the jury were African Americans. At a meeting held after the trial, Bennie Hays, the second-highest ranking official in the Klan in Alabama said: “If a black man can get away with killing a white man, we ought to be able to get away with killing a black man.” This, however, was not a calculated attempt to further a political agenda, but was simply revenge and hostility. Nobody’s arguing that the KKK isn’t nasty, that they aren’t a “hate group”, par excellence. But they aren’t “terrorists”. > [@](#): > > When did they get a clean bill of health with respect to being terrorist? Here’s the DoD definition of “terrorism” again. > [@](#): > > \*…intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological." \*You said it yourself: > [@](#): > > Their actions, lynchings, bombings, cross burnings, are things that are clearly calculated with the intention to cause terror, fear and trembling in the hearts of Black americans. The KKK wasn’t trying to coerce or intimidate American government, or even American society–they were just trying to intimidate a small subset of that society–blacks. Black Americans do not constitute the American government, or even American society. By the same token, Vietnamese fishermen do not constitute American government, or American society, therefore the actions of the Texas Klan cannot be taken to constitute “terrorism”. The Mafia also carried out murders and bombings clearly calculated to cause terror, fear, and trembling in the hearts of certain people–but they weren’t doing it with a set political agenda, they were doing it for other reasons, like extortion or revenge. Therefore, the Mafia aren’t terrorists, either. ---
**Author:** ![superfreakicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@superfreakicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superfreakicus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/15 "2003-01-06T04:53:05Z")
clearly, the klan WAS a terrorist organization. can’t say for sure, anymore. if you want the hilarious details of what the klan’s up to, nowadys, check out this book: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743227077/qid=1041828810/sr=2-1/ref=sr\_2\_1/103-3667839-7674246](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743227077/qid=1041828810/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-3667839-7674246) Them: Adventures with Extremists by Jon Ronson ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/16 "2003-01-06T05:03:58Z")
In Hazelgreen Alabama, just outside Huntsville. They acted like the Marx brothers dressed as Nazis; hateful while being clownishly stupid and totally ineffective. They seem able to cause a little mischief in a small and mean-spirited way but are seriously deficient in the terror department. I don’t consider the Klan a terrorist organization, more of a joke and taking them seriously gives them more credit than they deserve. Testy. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/17 "2003-01-06T05:54:08Z")
My freaky wierdo drug addict run high school actually had a Junior KKK group meeting in it every 3rd Wednesday or so. (this is 20 yrs ago in south Texas) It was full of the rejects from all the other cliques. I remember wondering how the Klan had managed to be so terrifying for so long if this is what they were. But, a dozen drunk “Bubbas” with baseball bats and no reasoning abilities can still wreak some major damage. My policy: If someone starts talking “Klan-ish,” I just leave. Why debate? I think that some of the groups that are white supremists can be classed with those who commit terrorist acts. Just look at Timothy McVeigh and what he did. Of course, a big part of that was supposed to be political (anti-government) in nature and not neccesarily racist. But, (in news reports/rumors around here [OKC] anyways) he was rumored to have links to white supremists groups. Is it reasonable to view the ultra right of rights groups like that as off shoots of the KKK? Or of KKK philosophies? Or was there/is there something even more basic that gave life to all these groups? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/18 "2003-01-06T05:57:45Z")
**Duck Duck Goose** Nice try with the Department of Defense definition, this one, however is more appropriate: > [@](#): > > Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. > –FBI Definition ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/19 "2003-01-06T06:28:21Z")
What’s with the snotty “nice try”? The Department of Defense definition differs in no substantive way from the FBI’s. They both say the same thing: FBI in red, DoD in blue. the unlawful use of force or violence the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to intimidate or coerce a government, intended to coerce or to intimidate governments to inculcate fear; against persons or property the civilian population, or any segment thereof, or societies in furtherance of political or social objectives. in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological. Now, in what way is the KKK using violence or the threat of violence “to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, **in furtherance of political or social objectives** ”? What are the KKK’s political and social objectives, anyway? Their goal, as stated on their website, besides such vague demagoguery as, “take back America” and “White Rights”, is as follows: > [@](#): > > We must take back control of OUR U.S. government. We intend to put Klansmen and Klanswomen in office all the way from the local school board to the White House! That’s it. That’s their political goal–to get members of the KKK elected to public office. Now, in what way are they using violence and the threat of violence to further this goal? Are they using violence to frighten people into staying away from the polls? Are they using intimidation to discourage black candidates from running for office, or other what they would call “pro-black” candidates? That would be about the only way I could think of that they could accomplish this and thus qualify as “terrorists”, under both the DoD and the FBI’s definitions. And in what way are they using the threat of violence to intimidate civilians to further their social objectives, which I suppose might be defined as “blacks who have no place in today’s society”? How do you go about doing something like that? What civilians do you know of that are being intimidated by the KKK, and to what purpose? And, is it organized, or is it just random assholery? If it’s just random assholery, it’s not “terrorism”. If it’s furthering a stated political or social agenda, then it’s terrorism. I understand that you want very badly for this to be a thread all about how the KKK is so evil that they qualify as terrorists, but it ain’t gonna happen. If you just wanna slang on the KKK because they’re Evil, go ahead, that’s what the Pit is for. And I’ll be happy to join you there, because I agree 100% that they’re evil. But they’re not “terrorists”, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787/20 "2003-01-06T06:54:12Z")
[According to the FBI they were](http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/history/text.htm) > [@](#): > > No specific guidelines for FBI Agents covering national security investigations had been developed by the Administration or Congress; these, in fact, were not issued until 1976. Therefore, the FBI addressed the threats from the militant “New Left” as it had those from Communists in the 1950s and the KKK in the 1960s. It used both traditional investigative techniques and counterintelligence programs (“Cointelpro”) to counteract domestic terrorism and conduct investigations of individuals and organizations who threatened terroristic violence. Wiretapping and other intrusive techniques were discouraged by Hoover in the mid-1960s and eventually were forbidden completely unless they conformed to the Omnibus Crime Control Act. Hoover formally terminated all “Cointelpro” operations on April 28, 1971. [From the domestic terrorism section](http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress99/senlast.htm) > [@](#): > > Of great concern to the FBI at the time, was a case in 1997 case that highlighted the potential danger associated with a criminal attack on a chemical facility. The FBI case, code named SOURGAS, involved four KKK members who plotted to place an improvised explosive devise on a hydrogen sulfide tank at a refinery near Dallas, Texas. The FBI was able to infiltrate the group prior to the attack. A surveillance tape shows two of the subjects discussing the potential death of hundreds of area residents. At one point when the discussion turned to the children who may have become victims, one subject turned to her husband and said “if it has to be… it has to be.” This cold-blooded killing was to take place merely as a diversion for an armored car robbery the group intended to commit on the other side of town. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/klu-klux-klan-terrorist-organization/146787.md?page=2)