# Knee Defender - Yea or Nea? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584 "2014-08-26T20:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/261 "2014-09-04T14:49:56Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > Just read the article, the inventor of the knee states that the airline is selling the space twice. Once for him to sit down and also for the person to recline. > > So the answer is a class action lawsuit. I see enough lawyers flying, wonder why one hasn’t come up with this. They paid for their space but can’t use it because of the recliner in front of them. Sue for loss of space say 5% loss if someone reclines(just pulled the number out of the air) therefore want 5% back times millions of tickets. Problem solved. Airlines put in non reclining seats or take out a row or two and pass the cost on. People can still buy based on price it will just be a bit higher and others won’t have to worry about recliners. :dubious: > > Remember you heard it hear first. 10% finders fee please. 😃 I’m not a lawyer, and definitely not an expert on law, but I seriously doubt that would work. When you buy a ticket, I don’t think any airlines guarantee you X cubic inches of space, they are selling a seat and guaranteeing that you will get to your destination safely. There’s no guarantee about when you will get there, or which seat you will have, since I believe they can move you if they need to. That said, it seems possible a class action suit could work if it’s based on injuries caused by the seats. Either by people getting hit in the knees, or people with back problems made worse by the seat backs or not being able to recline, or some other thing based on the seat design. Especially if knee injuries from airplane seats can be as bad as people here claim. I don’t know how likely a class action suit like this would be to work, but I would think it’s much more likely to succeed than one based on space sold. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > You can’t always do that. My personal travel is usually with my two young daughters. It doesn’t matter what seats I pick, we always get rebooked to the last row of the plane where they put people with kids. I always joke about it and tell them ‘Now get to the back of the bus!’ because it is a real policy but one that is never advertised. I think I need to pull a Rosa Parks the next time we travel on a plane to get myself in the history books but somehow I don’t think that will work as well as I hope. I didn’t realize they did that to parents. Seems like there’s usually more kids in the plane than just the back row. Is it just up to a certain age? Or for just certain airlines? I’m not doubting you at all, it’s just something I’ve never noticed and I don’t think I’ve ever heard mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/262 "2014-09-04T14:54:56Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Sounds like a prince. And, again, it bears noting that he was in economy PLUS. His knees were nowhere near the reclined seat and did not require defending. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/263 "2014-09-04T14:56:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I’m not a lawyer, and definitely not an expert on law, but I seriously doubt that would work. When you buy a ticket, I don’t think any airlines guarantee you X cubic inches of space, they are selling a seat and guaranteeing that you will get to your destination safely. There’s no guarantee about when you will get there, or which seat you will have, since I believe they can move you if they need to. > > That said, it seems possible a class action suit could work if it’s based on injuries caused by the seats. Either by people getting hit in the knees, or people with back problems made worse by the seat backs or not being able to recline, or some other thing based on the seat design. Especially if knee injuries from airplane seats can be as bad as people here claim. I don’t know how likely a class action suit like this would be to work, but I would think it’s much more likely to succeed than one based on space sold. > > I didn’t realize they did that to parents. Seems like there’s usually more kids in the plane than just the back row. Is it just up to a certain age? Or for just certain airlines? I’m not doubting you at all, it’s just something I’ve never noticed and I don’t think I’ve ever heard mentioned. I’ve never sat in the back with an infant. They always been very accommodating at trying to find us seats near empty seats. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/264 "2014-09-04T15:26:45Z")
I haven’t read through this whole thread, but I’m a large man. Not super tall, but very broad chested with very broad shoulders. On an airline flight, I’m going to have parts of my body over the armrests. I try desperately to be in an aisle seat when I can, and a window if not (middle for me = bad for everyone). I don’t have long legs, so I don’t fight the legroom battle too much, but it raises the same point: I suck it up and deal with it. (Reclining for me gives me a bit more room to not intrude on my neighbor too, so I do it when I can). The point is, I’m uncomfortable on an airplane…I usually and up folding my arms in and scrunching my shoulders forwards so I don’t fill the seat next to me, and it’s not exactly pain free…but I deal with it because I can’t afford a first class ticket in most cases. Oh well, sucks to be me. Likewise, if you’re tall and have legroom issues, find a position that minimizes interference with a reclined seat and deal with it. Sucks to be you. Yes, it’s uncomfortable. Oh well. I’m flying across the Atlantic later this month, and I know it’ll not be a fun flight (I’ve done it many times…it’s going to suck), but I’ll deal with it. I’ve already requested aisle seats for all flights, so I hope that works out (still uncomfortable because I end up leaning a bit most of the flight). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/265 "2014-09-04T15:31:36Z")
> [@Bouncer](#): > > Book a seat immediately behind an exit row. > > Exit row seats don’t recline. And now you know. 🙂 I don’t believe that is true. I agree that some exit rows don’t recline, but that is because it’s an exit row in front of _another_ exit row. I believe the rule is that seats IN FRONT of an exit row can’t recline. Therefore, if you are sitting behind a seat that doesn’t recline, then you are probably already in an exit row and have tons of leg room anyway. The whole point is to not block the exit in an emergency. Blocking the row behind an exit row is not a problem. What you should NOT do is book the row immediately in FRONT of an exit row. Those seats don’t recline and typically don’t have extra legroom. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/266 "2014-09-05T02:23:00Z")
[quote=“Sam\_Lowry, post:261, topic:696584”] I’m not a lawyer, and definitely not an expert on law, but I seriously doubt that would work. When you buy a ticket, I don’t think any airlines guarantee you X cubic inches of space, they are selling a seat and guaranteeing that you will get to your destination safely. There’s no guarantee about when you will get there, or which seat you will have, since I believe they can move you if they need to. That said, it seems possible a class action suit could work if it’s based on injuries caused by the seats. Either by people getting hit in the knees, or people with back problems made worse by the seat backs or not being able to recline, or some other thing based on the seat design. Especially if knee injuries from airplane seats can be as bad as people here claim. I don’t know how likely a class action suit like this would be to work, but I would think it’s much more likely to succeed than one based on space sold. QUOTE] it was tongue in cheek and the dubious icon was as close as I could find ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/267 "2014-09-05T13:06:12Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I don’t believe that is true. I agree that some exit rows don’t recline, but that is because it’s an exit row in front of _another_ exit row. I believe the rule is that seats IN FRONT of an exit row can’t recline. Therefore, if you are sitting behind a seat that doesn’t recline, then you are probably already in an exit row and have tons of leg room anyway. The whole point is to not block the exit in an emergency. Blocking the row behind an exit row is not a problem. > > What you should NOT do is book the row immediately in FRONT of an exit row. Those seats don’t recline and typically don’t have extra legroom. I’ve found this to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/268 "2014-09-05T15:46:30Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > it was tongue in cheek and the dubious icon was as close as I could find Ha, I wondered what that wooshing sound was that went right by me. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/269 "2014-09-05T17:31:07Z")
I don’t fly much, and I’m short. I’m too old and weak for an exit row. I just flew last week, though, and with the seat I reclined, my chin was almost to my chest. The seat seemed to angle forward, instead of straight up or a little back. As soon as I could, I reclined enough so I could sit in comfort. I don’t recline all the way, just an inch or two, but I don’t know how I could have sat with my head bent forward for the four hour flight if I couldn’t recline. So if they get rid of the reclining, I hope they make the seats bearable. I love the Boeing seats that Bouncer talked about. That seems like it would be a great solution. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/270 "2014-09-05T19:54:41Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > … > However, I am not convinced that the existing seat configuration is the best possible one (I am fairly certain that it isn’t even for the airlines). Airliners are basically huge tubes that you can do anything with… > Engineers and designers can do much better than anything they are trying today outside of 1st class. I completely agree, and newer aircraft are much improved. The new Boeing 787’s, for example, have really improved the intrusion space of the overhead bins, and improved the seat ergonomics. Many of the new economy seats I’d consider to be genuinely comfy for long flights. Lumbar support, whoodathunkit? It takes a really long time to phase out older aircraft though. Hell, one of my flight legs last year was in a DC-9 which felt like I was sitting on a buckboard wagon. All of the legroom in the world won’t save you from the assault of a 1970 seat design. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584/271 "2014-09-05T21:49:26Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I completely agree, and newer aircraft are much improved. The new Boeing 787’s, for example, have really improved the intrusion space of the overhead bins, and improved the seat ergonomics. Many of the new economy seats I’d consider to be genuinely comfy for long flights. Lumbar support, whoodathunkit? > > It takes a really long time to phase out older aircraft though. Hell, one of my flight legs last year was in a DC-9 which felt like I was sitting on a buckboard wagon. All of the legroom in the world won’t save you from the assault of a 1970 seat design. I agree with you but I think the point Shagnasty was making is that you can take an older design and retro fit new seats. The overhead bins would take more work and I wouldn’t expect them to change but the seats are something that can be swapped out. But realistically the seats swapped out have to be an off the shelf item for older planes. It’s expensive to certify anything on a plane. So if the 787 seats fit the tracks of a 757 then it would be possible to change them out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knee-defender-yea-or-nea/696584.md?page=13)