# Knives on planes... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904 "2013-03-14T11:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/21 "2013-03-14T16:28:04Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > TSA rules have never even pretended to make sense or that they have anything to do with safety. I’m guessing a bunch of people got tired of having their Swiss army knives thrown away, so they buckled. They say it was to be better in line with how the rest of the universe travels, but really, they didn’t want to be bothered with hassle of throwing away (often valuable) 1 inch blades anymore. Now if only they’d realize that I wasn’t going to moisturize the plane to death with a tiny bottle of Dove. What cracks me up most about these clowns they don’t seem to care how much liquids/gels you bring on the plane, except when they do. Ten 3 oz bottles? No prob. One 6 oz bottle that’s about 1/4 full? Chuck it. > > One day I’m going to grow tired of complaining about the TSA, but not today. Not only that, but you can bring ten 3 oz bottles of liquid AND an empty 32 oz bottle. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/22 "2013-03-14T16:28:20Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > The reason for allowing it is that the items in question (small pocket knives) are basically harmless, and prohibiting them seriously inconveniences a lot of people and also wastes manpower that’s better dedicated to looking for REAL threats. > > Next question? You’re assuming they can find real threats. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/23 "2013-03-14T16:32:22Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > So the banning of something like a Swiss Army knife has always been a bit silly. I have always carried my Swiss Army Knife in my pocket since the day I bought it, in Switzerland, back in 1987. Many times I came close to forgetting I had it when about to board a plane and quickly put it in my luggage. But seriously…while I can see how it could do some damage, I think 99.9999% of people who carry a Swiss Army Knife are carrying it for the purpose of always having a tool to fix things or open things, etc. and not as a weapon. And I would a agree that a pencil, or a large stiletto high heel, would be equally or more dangerous in the wrong hands than a small blade that most likely would collapse and drop out of your hand easily. Swiss Army Knives are actually a pretty piss-poor weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/24 "2013-03-14T16:37:00Z")
About time somebody rubbed a few brain cells together. To all those flight attendants who are up in arms over this, somebody needs to ask them to try to remember the last time somebody caused trouble with a 1" long blade on a keychain pocket knife. As for me, I’m more concerned about the possability of an enterprising terrorist smuggling liquid exposives on board in an insulin vial. If this happens, my sister will never be able to fly again. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/25 "2013-03-14T16:38:27Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > In fact, the security gate arrangements in most airports are what counterterrorism experts would call a “target rich environment”; passengers crammed into a small and constrained space, large amounts of baggage, and most importantly effectively zero actual security. You could walk into an airport and right up to the security gate with a bomb, can of gasoline, or assault rifle, and there are zero barriers or surveillance except the minimum wage flunky who prechecks that you have a photo i.d. The most convincing argument that there are not, in fact, massive underground terror cells in every city and hamlet from Manhattan to Mendicino is that no one has availed themselves of this overripe fruit. > > Security theater, my ass. More like “security kindergarten puppet show”. > > Stranger Got that right! If a terrorist organization wanted to paralyze the country, that would be the easiest way to do it: launch coordinated suicide bombing attacks at several major airports on a heavy travel day like Thanksgiving. Each terrorist would pack an oversized rollaboard with plastic explosives and shrapnel, and detonate the bomb in the crowded screening area. Follow up with attacks at Amtrak stations and Greyhound bus terminals the next day for maximum havoc. Given that scenario (which can’t be prevented by any of the current security procedures in use), why waste time and energy worrying about pocket knives? The big threat is an attack like the one above, or another Lockerbie, not a repeat of 9/11. I’m glad to see the TSA is willing to eliminate at least some useless security theater for once. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/26 "2013-03-14T16:40:21Z")
When I was passing through the security checkpoint at Gatwick back in the '80s, I’d forgotten I had my SAK Champion in my photo vest pocket. Oops. The security guy examined it, said ‘Nice knife’, and returned it to me. Since the TSA humbug was instituted, I’ve had to remember to remove my [SAK Classic](http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Classic-Pocket-Knife/dp/B00004YVB2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1363279096&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=victorinox+gentemans+knife) from my key fob. The sooner we can get rid of the Security Kabuki, the better. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/27 "2013-03-14T16:45:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You’re assuming they can find real threats. Given that loaded handguns are still making it past the security screen, I’m not assuming that at all. 😃 But of course that’s the point: the more verboten items you tell the screeners to look for, the more likely it is they’ll miss something. I’d rather have the sccreeners looking harder for fewer (but more dangerous) items. Let’s give the pocket knives and other small, pointy things a pass. Now if we can only do something to make the liquids rule more sensible as well… ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/28 "2013-03-14T16:51:02Z")
I always carry a [Victorinox Nomad](http://www.opticsplanet.com/victorinox-nomad-swiss-army-knife-black.html). The blade is too long, but I’ll be happy when TSA allows small blades. I have an old locking knife with a 2.25" blade, so that’ll be the one I travel with. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/29 "2013-03-14T17:01:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Three of the most common choices–including one that is greviously injurious if used effectively–can be found on most carry-on luggage. > > Stranger Like that little tag you write your name on? What do you rip it off and start papercutting people to death? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/30 "2013-03-14T17:30:22Z")
The wife had a nice Swiss Army knife she picked up in Los Angeles on a trip we made there in about 1995. It was a pretty nice one too. “Was,” because fast-forward to April 2010. We were flying from Danang to Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. Going through security at Danang Airport, she discovered she’d stuck it in her carry-on without thinking. It was confiscated by the security guard … and we saw it promptly disappear into his pants pocket. Hmmm. :dubious: No doubt it made a nice present for his son. The wife is still pissed off about it to this day. But we did get another nice one last year in NYC, this one with a wooden handle. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/31 "2013-03-14T17:40:42Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Today, if a handful of people stood up and started waving tiny pocket knives around, I’m quite certain (or hoping, at least) the rest of the 100+ passengers would immediately tackle them and stomp them into bloody paste. I’ll gladly risk a gash or two if it’s going to save my life (and everyone else on the plane), as I’m willing to bet most people would as well. It’s really this; The whole stupid rule was put in place because the 9/11 Hijackers used box cutters to hijack a plane, so the TSA, in it’s tried and true “ban something after it gets used, rather than look for actual solutions” mode decided that clearly the way to prevent 9/11 part 2 was to ban things like box cutters from planes. Where this breaks down (BESIDES the obvious problem of “trying to prevent a problem that has already happened”) is that the post 9/11 mindset towards hijackers is COMPLETELY different from what it was before. Prior to 9/11, the “collective wisdom” regarding hijackings is that passengers should stay put and not make trouble, because all that was ever going to happen was that the hijacker was going to redirect the plane to Cuba or something and hold the hostage for money, which was a situation the authorities had no trouble dealing with. So when 9/11 happened, nobody stood up. Today? Different animal. 9/11 is so embedded in the popular consciousness that pretty much the first thing anyone thinks of if someone says “hijacking” is “oh \*\*\*\*! They’re gonna crash the plane into a building!”. The next person who tries to hijack a plane with a box cutter is going to be bludgeoned to death by carry on luggage before you can say “Air marshall.” ---
**Author:** ![geneb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e4f/32.png) [@geneb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geneb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/32 "2013-03-14T18:06:44Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I always carry a [Victorinox Nomad](http://www.opticsplanet.com/victorinox-nomad-swiss-army-knife-black.html). The blade is too long, but I’ll be happy when TSA allows small blades. I have an old locking knife with a 2.25" blade, so that’ll be the one I travel with. If I recall correctly from my reading about this the other day, knives with locking blades are still banned. I may have to move on to a new pocket knife myself… My blade is 3 inches. Might get a smaller one for travel rather than stuffing it in a sock in my checked baggage. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/33 "2013-03-14T18:09:55Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I have always carried my Swiss Army Knife in my pocket since the day I bought it, in Switzerland, back in 1987. I bought mine in Zurich in 1985 and carried it with me always on my keyring, until October of 2001 when the whole ring, keys and all, were snatched out of my hands by airport security and thrown in the trash without a word of explanation. That was the beginnings of the TSA and they hadn’t published their lists of forbidden articles yet. It took a loud, angry argument with the guard who spoke only a little English, the intervention of an armed, uniformed soldier and then a kindly airline employee before I was allowed to leave the line with my keys and knife. Turns out you could take all the bombs, guns and knives you want if you just check your bags. These days I leave any non-essential metal or liquid at home if I have to fly. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/34 "2013-03-15T06:44:59Z")
> [@geneb](#): > > If I recall correctly from my reading about this the other day, knives with locking blades are still banned. > > I may have to move on to a new pocket knife myself… My blade is 3 inches. Might get a smaller one for travel rather than stuffing it in a sock in my checked baggage. Hmm, thanks. I wouldn’t want my small lock-blade taken away. We’ll have to see what the TSA rules are when they’re posted. And, I avoid checking in bags as much as possible. Being flexible and quick-in and -out (of the **airport** - sheesh!) is valuable to me. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/35 "2013-03-15T06:56:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > In fact, the security gate arrangements in most airports are what counterterrorism experts would call a “target rich environment”; passengers crammed into a small and constrained space, large amounts of baggage, and most importantly effectively zero actual security. You could walk into an airport and right up to the security gate with a bomb, can of gasoline, or assault rifle, and there are zero barriers or surveillance except the minimum wage flunky who prechecks that you have a photo i.d. The most convincing argument that there are not, in fact, massive underground terror cells in every city and hamlet from Manhattan to Mendicino is that no one has availed themselves of this overripe fruit. > > Security theater, my ass. More like “security kindergarten puppet show”. > > Stranger The last time I went through security, they swabbed my cat, as well as both hands I was holding her with. Presumably, this was to see if she was covered in PETN or something. It was all I could do not to laugh at them incredulously when they told me what they were going to do, especially since having the cat had just allowed me to walk around the body scanner instead of through it. She did try to scratch the guy. I was so proud. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/36 "2013-03-15T07:05:05Z")
When pocket knife ownership is made a crime, only criminals will own pocket knives. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/37 "2013-03-15T07:21:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The reality is that with reinforced/locked cockpits, nobody is taking over a plane with a knife anymore. This was true a week after 9/11 and will be likely be true for the next 50 years. I don’t care if the guy is swinging a machete, all he’s got is a captive audience that is going to pile on his ass the moment he starts getting violent. Yup. As the aviation journalist Patrick Smith penned: [QUOTE=Patrick Smith] …from a terrorist’s standpoint, the September 11th blueprint is no longer a useful strategy. One of the grandest and rarely acknowledged ironies is that the success of the September 11th attacks had almost nothing to do with airport security in the first place. Conventional wisdom holds that the attacks succeeded because 19 hijackers took advantage of a weakness in airport security by smuggling boxcutters onto jetliners. And conventional wisdom is wrong. What the men actually took advantage of was a weakness in our thinking, and our presumptions of what a hijacking was, and how one would be expected to unfold, based on the decades-long track record of hijackings. In years prior, as many of us remember, a hijacking meant a diversion, perhaps to Havana or Beirut, with hostage negotiations and standoffs; crews were accordingly trained in the concept of “passive resistance.” …as a tool for a suicide hijacking, knives today would be useless. The hijack paradigm was changed forever even before the morning of September 11th had ended, when the passengers of United flight 93 realized what was happening, and fought back. Because of the awareness of passengers and crew, together with armed pilots and barricaded cockpits, the idea that a jetliner could again be commandeered using knives is too ridiculous to entertain. This was not the case in 2001, but it certainly is true today. We have to remove this discussion from the framework, and the emotional weight, of September 11th. _It is no longer about that._ - See more at: [http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/askthepilot/2013/03/tsa\_to\_permit\_small\_knives\_on.html#sthash.GecU87ny.dpuf](http://www.boston.com/community/blogs/askthepilot/2013/03/tsa_to_permit_small_knives_on.html#sthash.GecU87ny.dpuf) [/QUOTE] h/t James Fallows: [Why the TSA Is Right, and Markey and Schumer Are Wrong, About the Little Knives - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/03/why-the-tsa-is-right-and-markey-and-schumer-are-wrong-about-the-little-knives/273976/) Allowing pocket knives is a prudent idea, a brave idea, a wonderfully prudent brave idea. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/38 "2013-03-15T07:48:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > There is a standard test question in counterterrorism training which requires the student to identift twelve improvised weapons which can be used to restrain or disable an aggressive person and can be taken through airport security without issue. Three of the most common choices–including one that is greviously injurious if used effectively–can be found on most carry-on luggage. I’ve heard a piece of paper can be folded to fatally stab someone in the jugular. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/39 "2013-03-15T11:56:06Z")
[How the humble newspaper can be transformed into a weapon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_brick). The references even have an article suggesting that they should be banned from flights (sarcastically). ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904/40 "2013-03-15T12:49:34Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Like that little tag you write your name on? What do you rip it off and start papercutting people to death? I don’t know exactly what luggage part **Stranger** has in mind - but do bear in mind that many, many carryons are rollaboards, which have metal frames and telescoping metal handles. I can easily imagine someone creative managing to make a dangerous weapon from one of those metal pieces. (And that’s without even considering the contents of the luggage.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knives-on-planes/652904.md?page=3)