# Knock out punch: how plausible, how does it work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560 "2003-08-30T03:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/1 "2003-08-30T03:02:20Z")
One of the most convenient, and yet, I suspect, implausible, plot devices in movies is the knock-out punch. The good guy being chased by the bad guy’s henchmen engages them in fisticuffs, and with a single uppercut to each baddie’s jaw, renders them unconscious. Gets them out of way without the moral problems of killing or wounding them with a gunshot. One of the most ridiculous examples I can recall is in a Bogart movie (I think it’s _The Big Sleep_) in which he has to keep a girl from following him on some dangerous mission, so he gives her a little tap on the chin with his fist, and she obligingly falls unconscious. But consider that in pro boxing, two very strong and fit guys can pummel each other for an hour, and actual unconscious-making knockouts (as opposed to knock-downs) are relatively rare. Yes, the gloves soften the blow _a little_, but it seems to me that boxers are in much better shape than the average film hero. So what is the science behind knocking somone out? Just how easy is it to do it with a punch or even a blow to the head with a blunt object? Are there ways of hitting, or places to hit, that can reliably render someone unconscious? (Mods: I’m just asking, not trying to get practical advice. I haven’t been in a fist fight since elementary school.) Or is the knock-out punch mostly just a convenient fiction? ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/2 "2003-08-30T03:12:29Z")
Hmmm…knocking someone out? Seems like perfect use of Death Ray weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Ottoerotic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ottoerotic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottoerotic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/3 "2003-08-30T03:56:09Z")
I imagine it would be very difficult to knock someone out with an uppercut to the jaw. I think an especially hard shot to the temple, or to the back of the head would do it, although your chances of killing someone with this type of shot would also increase. I don’t recall ever seeing a boxer take a shot to the back of the head, so that might explain the lack of knock-out punches there. That and the fact that they may just be used to the trauma caused by head shots. As far as movies go, I always assumed that the victim hit their head on the ground hard enough to knock themselves out, but it does seem to be used as a easy crutch for film makers quite often. Regarding the death ray’s I’m not sure, the ones these days would probably just kill them on contact, but I suppose if you could get your hands on an older model… (and I’m talking way old) why, yes that just might work. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/4 "2003-08-30T04:27:53Z")
obviously you guys have never been smashed in the nose. Jesus, it’s bad. Real bad. Your eyes water shut, your head goes completely numb, and you may go unconscious. And if you don’t, you feel like your going to die! That’s the best way (if you ask me) to knock someone out: rock them in the schnoze as hard as you can. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/5 "2003-08-30T04:36:56Z")
I think that knockouts are a result of concussion ranging from mild to severe. If you can hit someone hard enough on the jaw to produce that effect a one punch knockout is real. You better do it with the first blow though because you will probably break a bone in your hand rendering it hard to follow up or defend yourself. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/6 "2003-08-30T05:23:50Z")
According to former light heavyweight champion Jose Torres in his biography of Muhammad Ali boxers are knocked out when they don’t see the punch coming. This is the reason that a combination of relatively light punches may produce a knockout while a haymaker may not. Pretty routinely people who are attacked without warning (“king hit” in Australia) are knocked out by one blow. Some years ago an Aussie boxer was leaving a Sydney hotel walking some distance behind the friend he was with. The friend was attacked by four men for no apparent reason. The boxer ran up and hit each man once. All were hospitalised with broken jaws. The boxer was charged with something but found not guilty as he had only thrown 4 punches. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/7 "2003-08-30T06:29:48Z")
I’ve been dazed by a hard blow before - not knocked out but for several seconds I didn’t know which end was up. Also recall seeing one of the full-contact UFC fights where Tank Abbott dinged a guy in the jaw with a solid uppercut and the fellow dropped like a puppet with the strings cut. He didn’t stumble and fall and look looped, he was out like a light, just that quick. Took a little bit for him to come to again. Per previous poster, I don’t think he saw that one coming. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/8 "2003-08-30T07:04:29Z")
Keep in mind that, for the most part, unconsciousness is a response to an **injury**. IE, you clobber the guy with a pipe hard enough to render him unconscious, you’ve dealt him some damage- concussion, brain hemmorage, you name it. The unconsciousness is usually a response to a massive, overwhelming dose of pain- it’s not a Mr. Spock thing where you find a nerve center that happens to have an “off” setting. Long story short, yes, there’s such a thing as an instant-knockout punch, but it will almost always involve broken bones, massive bruising, a concussion, possibly bleeding, and a whole host of other physical ailments. The “clunk 'im with your roscoe to lightly knock 'im out for half an hour” of TV, movies and old Mickey Spillane novels, especially where the clunkee shows up an apparent few hours later with no bandages, no bruises or black eyes, and cognitive enough to still fight back, is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/9 "2003-08-30T07:09:06Z")
[Gilbert Yvel vs. Gary “Big Daddy” Goodridge](http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/matchvids.cfm?matchid=414) from Pride 10 (1.8MB mpeg). The kick you see (delivered by Gilbert) is the first contact between the fighters. Goodridge, ironically, was the heavy favorite in this fight. I’ve seen others but this one takes the cake. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/10 "2003-08-30T11:21:21Z")
Althought the Mr Spock thing works if you trigger the vasovagal reflex, with pressure on the right place in the neck…from a pretzel say… ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/11 "2003-08-30T12:26:04Z")
I was once knocked out whilst sparring during a Ju-Jitsu lesson. We were wearing gloves as well. I took a punch to the temple and just dropped to the floor. Apparently I was only out for a few seconds, but it does prove its possible. After I woke up I was a little groggy you’d expect, but this only lasted a couple of minutes. I carried on training after that. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/12 "2003-08-30T12:28:13Z")
The subject has been covered quite well before: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=14630&highlight=mandibular](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=14630&highlight=mandibular) Check out Xenopus’ post for a good technical answer. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/13 "2003-08-30T12:31:15Z")
When I was in college one of my friends was a semi-pro boxer. He asked me to spar with him because my reach was longer than his and he had a fight coming up with a guy who had a much longer reach. Once during the sparing he caught me with an upper cut straight on the jaw. It didn’t know me out, but it sure rang my bells. I saw stars and felt dizzy and I suspect that a second such blow would have put me down. ---
**Author:** ![hlanelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/14 "2003-08-30T12:58:27Z")
Go to [www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0502-td.htm](http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0502-td.htm) Tom Donelson accuratly describes exactly what happens in a knockout. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/15 "2003-08-30T13:51:42Z")
I recall a story of a couple of robbers who attacked a gas station clerk. They beaned him with a fire extingisher and thought, like in the movies, that he should have gone down. He didn’t, and was still moving (probably twitching or dazed) and so the retards kept hitting him in the head until he stopped moving. The robbers are in jail for murder. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/knock-out-punch-how-plausible-how-does-it-work/198560/16 "2003-08-30T16:57:33Z")
An uppercut to the jaw can be a very effective knockout punch. The force is transferred directly from the jaw to the skull and jars the brain. A pro boxer wears a mouthpiece that absorbs some of the impact from such a punch. More importantly, a boxer that intends to have a career of more that a couple of fights learns to keep his chin down and his hands up as a preventive measure. A boxer actually develops an immunity to getting hit in the head. That is both a good and bad thing. It keeps his boxing career alive but allows him to retain consciousness despite sever blows to the head and allows him to absorb more punishment than he should. Boxers don’t develop dementia from one knockout, it is from years of absorbing relatively minor damage to the brain. As noted earlier, it is the punch that is not seen that typically causes the knockout. A fighter the sees even a glimpse of a punch coming will usually slip it enough to avoid a knockout. Therefore, a quick, hard, sudden, unexpected punch to the jaw of an unsuspecting victim can easily render the victim unconscious. The same punch to a trained boxer or a very tough hombre may have little effect.