# Know how "Fat but fit" is supposed to be OK? Well... move it across to the bullshit aisle. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091 "2015-01-06T02:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/41 "2015-01-08T01:11:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I gotta tell ya, I saw plenty of very heavy folks when I did tris - passing me by in the swim. We’re buoyant. (I was going for “we float”, but that just led to an “It” joke…) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/42 "2015-01-08T01:12:51Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > DSeid - Or put another way 500 cal is 20-25% of the average adult male daily calorie burn. > > Not sure yours is a helpful way to look at it. It’s like saying a meal is two snickers, or a big mac - sure, but it’s also a nice plate of chicken and brown rice, etc. There is no such thing as a nice plate of brown rice. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/43 "2015-01-08T01:19:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Merry Christmas! You’re being kinda rude in this thread. > > Age 55, weighing 210 pounds, is not exactly describing the average runner. > > I’m trying to figure out where you got your speed from because the calculator you posted does not include speed… Hey, it wasn’t me who wrote (to me) \>\>\> > [@](#): > > You’re seriously delusional about the amount of calories exercise burns. There are basically no forms of exercise ordinary people can do that burn 1000 calories an hour. Maybe – maybe – you’d burn that summitting k2. Maths: You take the distance and divide it by the minutes. This gives you speed. Thus 10.3 (distance) divided by 60 (minutes) = 10.3 k per hour (or 6.4 mph) Either way, it’s still1000 calories! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/44 "2015-01-08T01:20:45Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > There is no such thing as a nice plate of brown rice. Goes great with peas and chicken! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/45 "2015-01-08T01:34:44Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [‘Fat But Fit’ Theory Mainly Flops in Long Term: Study](http://www.nbcnews.com/health/diet-fitness/fat-fit-theory-mainly-flops-long-term-study-n278836) > > As someone who has struggled with weight control all my life I always thought this smelled like wish fulfillment. The bottom line is if you carry around a pile of lard there will eventually be a price to pay. My understanding is that obesity is an independent health risk factor, but it is mostly the visceral abdominal fat that causes the health risks. Subcutaneous fat (the fat that we find culturally disgusting) is not nearly as harmful. The fat around and in your internal organs is the stuff you want to get rid of. Either way, obesity is just one of many risk factors. And it isn’t the most important. Loneliness is more damaging to health. > **[Loneliness twice as unhealthy as obesity for older people, study finds](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/16/loneliness-twice-as-unhealthy-as-obesity-older-people)** > > Scientists found that the loneliest were nearly twice as likely to die during their six-year study than the least lonely There are dozens of risk factors in health. Activity level. Visceral fat. Social connections. Micronutrient intake. Macronutrient ratios. Stress levels. Smoking. Heavy alcohol use, dangerous hobbies. Dangerous jobs. Poverty. Education level. etc. If a person cannot or doesn’t want to lose weight, they can focus on a different health risk factor and improve that. A fat person who gives up smoking is likely going to be as good or better off than a thin person who smokes for example (I’ve heard smoking takes 10-15 years off life expectancy while obesity is something like 2-5, but the studies vary and the more obese the worse). It is better to be both thin and fit, but if you can’t or don’t want to be thin you can still get the health benefits of getting fit even if you don’t lose any weight. Ideally you should focus on the risk factors that are most strongly associated with the diseases you are most at risk for, and the changes you can sustain for the rest of your life. Most people have serious trouble losing large amounts of weight and keeping it off permanently via lifestyle changes. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/46 "2015-01-08T01:52:34Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > NFL offensive linemen would be the prototypical Fat but Fit examples. I think the idea is you work out a ton but also eat a ton. It’s interesting, hubby and I were just chatting about this the other day. The time for the fat lineman is definitely passing, the guys are still huge, but they are no longer fat. They can move, maneuver and are fit. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/47 "2015-01-08T16:07:30Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Thank you for all the interesting information. And thank you to **iljitsch** also for providing a personal story. > > I can understand how someone can become unfit and gain a lot of weight and then start to gain fitness and still be large. And I suppose **DSeid** ’s studies indirectly show that it’s possible, but my curiosity was about whether people could be fit in a cardiorespiratory way and remain obese for decades. My thought was that if someone is fit enough to exercise regularly for decades, then remaining the same weight would require more food to keep the weight on since muscle is also being built at the same time. It seems like one of those two things would shift over time. You don’t need to lift weights and build muscle to be fit. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/48 "2015-01-08T16:21:59Z")
I just want to repeat the point about high cholesterol; even if you can be fit and fat, fat is still the leading cause of high cholesterol. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/49 "2015-01-08T17:02:42Z")
OP fail. Fat is not the same as obese. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/50 "2015-01-08T17:59:43Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I thought the supposedly counter-intuitive “fatter but fitter” thing applied to people who were like 15-20 pounds overweight. Your average schlub, not obese land whales. This was my understanding as well. It was the way it was presented on the news. How are these studies breaking down the weights. Do they consider everything above normal weight to be ‘obese’? I am 6’1" and 260 lbs. I am large but no one would consider me obese. And I exercise 3 to 4 times per week. And thanks again to **DSeid** for the info! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/51 "2015-01-08T18:14:18Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > I just want to repeat the point about high cholesterol; even if you can be fit and fat, fat is still the leading cause of high cholesterol. You can lower your cholesterol through regular exercise, though. Weight loss isn’t a requirement for lowering cholesterol. > [@BOOM](#): > > Maths: > > You take the distance and divide it by the minutes. This gives you speed. Thus 10.3 (distance) divided by 60 (minutes) = 10.3 k per hour (or 6.4 mph) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/52 "2015-01-08T22:00:45Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > … How are these studies breaking down the weights. Do they consider everything above normal weight to be ‘obese’? I am 6’1" and 260 lbs. I am large but no one would consider me obese. And I exercise 3 to 4 times per week. > > And thanks again to **DSeid** for the info! You are welcome. But the bad news - by definition you _would_ be called obese. Your BMI is 34.3; Grade 1 obesity is 30 to 34.9, overweight is 25 to 29.9. And that is how the studies define it, by BMI, although the largest also used body fat percents and found the same results with both definitions, across all quintiles. I quoted an article discussing that large study before, [here](http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/content/124/23/2483.full) is the actual study. > [@](#): > > The primary finding of this study is that maintaining or improving fitness was associated with a lower risk of both all-cause and CVD mortality compared with losing fitness in 14 345 men during 11.4 years of follow-up. Every 1 maximal MET improvement was associated with 15% and 19% lower risk of all-cause and CVD mortality, respectively. Also, men who became fit or remained fit had a lower risk of all-cause and CVD mortality compared with men who remained unfit. These associations were observed after accounting for possible confounding effects of baseline risk factors, changes in lifestyle factors and medical conditions, and simultaneous change in BMI. Moreover, these findings were consistent regardless of the men’s baseline fitness levels … **BOOM!** , by usual definition the “healthy obese” do not have elevated cholesterol and the _fit_ obese do not seem to be at great risk of developing it. Not sure what you mean about fat being the leading cause of high cholesterol but it does not seem to be an uncontroversially established truth for any of a variety of interpretations. Not sure how many of the obese can keep up a 6.4 mph pace, no matter how fit. Honestly I am, if I do say so, quite fit, not fat, but even the year I did a half ironman and my marathon year, I was not and am not fast. 6 to 6.2 mph for a half hour is a good hard work out for me. A bit slower for runs over an hour long. (But again the point holds even at 500 calories burned in exercise each day.) ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/53 "2015-01-08T23:12:12Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > I just want to repeat the point about high cholesterol; even if you can be fit and fat, fat is still the leading cause of high cholesterol. After losing weight for 18 months, but still at \> 35 BMI, my cholesterol was 4.2 mmol/L / 162 mg/dL, with LDL at 2.3 / 89 and HDL 1.7 / 66. I suspect that it’s not so much your weight that determines cholesterol, but whether your weight is in the process of going up or down. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/54 "2015-01-08T23:17:31Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Goes great with peas and chicken! You can have my brown rice… ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/55 "2015-01-09T00:27:01Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > So I guess no more eating cheeseburgers while I’m trying to pass the time on the treadmill? > Damn! Hold on. I don’t think the article said that specifically. But, I’m wondering: While I’m on the treadmill, do I have to do anything, or can I still just sit there? More to the OP, though. I’m still dusgusted at that fat prick, Dr. Phil, selling a book about losing weight, when he weighed about 250, and lecturing people about that being his ‘feel good’ weight. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/56 "2015-01-09T00:48:59Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > You can have my brown rice… Mine, too. Revolting. I did just discover an amazing organic bread. I love this stuff. [http://www.daveskillerbread.com/good-seed/](http://www.daveskillerbread.com/good-seed/) Sorry for the derail, but wanted to tout the bread. :o ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/57 "2015-01-09T02:33:00Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > NFL offensive linemen would be the prototypical Fat but Fit examples. I think the idea is you work out a ton but also eat a ton. And die at 50, as many of them did. > [@astro](#): > > Know how “Fat but fit” is supposed to be OK? Well… move it across to the bullshit aisle. Duh? I mean, really, how self-deluded must one be to believe that? I’m insane-fat, but I know it will kill me eventually. I often wonder why it hasn’t yet. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/58 "2015-01-09T05:24:19Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And die at 50, as many of them did. > Duh? I mean, really, how self-deluded must one be to believe that? I’m insane-fat, but I know it will kill me eventually. I often wonder why it hasn’t yet. [Really?](http://www.thebigbangauthor.com/2011/10/nfl-players-life-expectancy-might-be.html) [Many did?](http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/08/18/why-everything-you-hear-about-the-deadly-game-of-football-is-false/) Such gets stated a lot but the basis seems to merely be people saying it. > [@](#): > > George Will, who by one metric writes America’s most-read column, contends: “For all players who play five or more years, life expectancy is less than 60; for linemen it is much less.” > > But it’s not. > > The suspicion that the game steals years proved so strong that the NFL Players Association petitioned the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health to conduct a mortality study on their profession. The federal researchers discovered diminished rates of cancer and heart disease for pension-vested retirees who, like Lem Barney, played in five or more seasons between 1959 and 1988. They found that retired players died at nearly half the ratio as comparable men outside of the NFL. The dietary and lifestyle demands of an athlete, let alone the rigors of running and wrestling on a 100-yard field, yield healthier bodies. Professional football players live longer, not less. **dropzone** , do you exercise? If so how much and how often? If not why not? Relatively few of the obese exercise much and obviously they are then both fat and unfit. Some have tried exercise but gave it up because they did not as a result lose much weight, and they believe that it is losing weight that matters. The simple fact is that you are deluding yourself if you think that it wouldn’t matter if you exercise and become fit because you would still stay fat and that is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/59 "2015-01-09T17:47:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The simple fact is that you are deluding yourself if you think that it wouldn’t matter if you exercise and become fit because you would still stay fat and that is all that matters. But the reality is that health will never be a sufficient motivation for most obese people to become fit. It really only seems worth it if one can lose weight and become more socially accepted. That is my impression from the swarms of women I know who are in constant pursuit of weight loss, and who only seem to give a damn about fitness insofar as it makes them more physically attractive. If they only lose a half pound in a week it is a catastrophic failure and they might as well give up. Etc. Some of us, I think, can find a way beyond the superficial reasons to pursue fitness. I think some people started out that way but found they gained something much more important than weight loss. If we could box and sell _that_ instead of weight insecurity, we might have half a chance of improving health outcomes for millions of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091/60 "2015-01-09T22:32:20Z")
A big reason I do my HIIT cardio 2x a week is that it is more effective at lowering blood pressure than regular cardio, plus the stamina benefits are noticeable. If I don’t get enough sleep I am not as lethargic the next day. Plus I have much more stamina when playing with my nieces. This christmas when a lot of boxes needed to be moved going up and down stairs many times weren’t as fatiguing as they are when I’m not exercising. I’ve lost 0 pounds doing it, and I know that losing weight is a major reason people exercise, but there are a lot of other benefits people should look for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/know-how-fat-but-fit-is-supposed-to-be-ok-well-move-it-across-to-the-bullshit-aisle/709091.md?page=2)