# Known pedophile brings in kids by the busload **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548 "2004-12-18T18:45:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/1 "2004-12-18T18:45:30Z")
[http://tinyurl.com/5szte](http://tinyurl.com/5szte) OK, “pitting” Jacko is shooting fish in a barrel. I don’t think he lacks any humanity, and so it’s possible he’s giving disadvantaged children a fun day because it’s a nice thing to do for them, and obviously he doesn’t deserve to get pitted for that. But one suspects that whatever altruistic motives he has are mixed up with staging a PR stunt and/or a desire to be surrounded by kids, possibly videotaping the whole thing for later enjoyment. One wonders how carefully they monitored the kids, and assured that none were taken inside for That Secret Special Ride… Words fail me. I am eager to see one of our more prolific pitters write an epic pit on this event. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/2 "2004-12-18T19:22:18Z")
For Michael Jackson to bring in a busload of kids is pretty bad, but how about the parents who put their kids on that bus? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/3 "2004-12-18T19:41:25Z")
You said it, **Arky**. Everybody knows I think most people are stupid, but even I’m left gasping by this. It takes a true, Grade A, “I’m sorry you figured out how to reproduce”-style moron to take his (or her) kids to Michael Jackson. That this man was sick and had some big time problems was obvious years ago, and now he’s in the middle of a long-running child molestation case. Come on! I suspect that if Charles Manson was out of jail, some of these parents would have him babysit their kids. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/4 "2004-12-18T19:57:13Z")
Okay, now where’s the bit about Jacko being a known pedophile? Oh, right… ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/5 "2004-12-18T20:05:04Z")
Holy heck, it’s bad enough to imagine the stupid parents putting their kids on a bus, but Jackson claims those kids were sent to Neverland by entire organizatons of stupid people! "Friday’s visitors, from six organizations and ranging in age from about 3 or 4 years to their teens, were bused to Neverland and then rode a train up from the parking lot. They included children with special needs from Santa Barbara and some affiliated with the First AME Church in Los Angeles > [@](#): > > Friday’s visitors, from six organizations and ranging in age from about 3 or 4 years to their teens, […]included children with special needs from Santa Barbara and some affiliated with the First AME Church in Los Angeles, according to a list of groups issued to reporters. […] > > The Rev. Brenda Lamothe, executive assistant to First AME Pastor John Hunter, said the church did not authorize a group to go to Neverland Jackson must still have ties to charities or kid’s clubs or something. How else could he find all these kids? An ad in the personals? ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/6 "2004-12-18T20:13:23Z")
Could we have a cite on that “known” in the thread title? Or does the OP know something for a fact that the courts don’t yet? I have no axe to grind here. Jacko is a basket case. But it’s justs the whole innocent until proven deal, you know. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/7 "2004-12-18T21:22:28Z")
_Weekly World News_ doesn’t count, either. Though I would be worthless to any case as a juror because of my personal opinion that he probably is, until either a conviction or an undisputable disclosure comes out, one would do well to use such words as “alleged” or “suspected.” My crystal ball says that might come soon, btw, but until it does… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/8 "2004-12-18T21:38:39Z")
The parents and organizers are probably the same people we saw falling all over the place, sobbing and wetting themselves when Jackson lept on top of the van and danced after his initial hearing. Remember that? They’re the idiots that go to his concerts and go into absolute hysterics when he comes out, weeping and going into convulsions. Then if he even looks at them, they start freaking out as if they were lepers who had been cured by the miraculous springs of Lourdes. THESE are the type of people who’d let their children around Michael. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/9 "2004-12-18T21:44:41Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > until either a conviction or an undisputable disclosure comes out, one would do well to use such words as “alleged” or “suspected.” Even after a conviction, nothing’s for certain. But even with_out_ a conviction, this is as slam-dunk a case you’re gonna get. But for now, yeah, use “suspected” and after he’s convicted, use “convicted”. “Convicted” both emphasizes the minute chance of factual innocence while at the same time emphasizing the criminal nature of the pedophilia. If he’s guilty, he’s a disgrace to ordinary law-abiding pedophiles. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/10 "2004-12-18T21:52:17Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I have no axe to grind here. Jacko is a basket case. But it’s justs the whole innocent until proven deal, you know. He is in fact _such_ a basket case that sometimes Edlyn and I feel sorry for him. He seems to have the emotional maturity of an eight-year-old. [hijack] Guin, what happened to your charter membership? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/11 "2004-12-18T22:02:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > [hijack] > > Guin, what happened to your charter membership? > > [/hijack] Apparently, there was a glitch in the system, and for some reason, I ended up being read as “member” rather than “Charter Member”, which I was originally. It’s such a minor thing, I’m not about to bother the admin about it. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/12 "2004-12-18T22:18:35Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > LOS OLIVOS, Calif. - Christmas came early for some 200 children who got to play at Michael Jackson (news)'s amusement park and meet Santa Claus. God, I hope ‘Santa Claus’ isn’t his little name for it… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/13 "2004-12-18T22:42:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Even after a conviction, nothing’s for certain. But even with_out_ a conviction, this is as slam-dunk a case you’re gonna get. But for now, yeah, use “suspected” and after he’s convicted, use “convicted”. > > “Convicted” both emphasizes the minute chance of factual innocence while at the same time emphasizing the criminal nature of the pedophilia. If he’s guilty, he’s a disgrace to ordinary law-abiding pedophiles. There’s really no suspected/convicted about it. His buying off that kid a couple of years ago was an open admission of guilt. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/14 "2004-12-18T22:59:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > There’s really no suspected/convicted about it. His buying off that kid a couple of years ago was an open admission of guilt. To you and me, sure. For a publication like, say, _The Chicago Reader_, it brings up the very real problem of **libel**. That’s all I’m really concerned about. I would hate to see a board of directors get worried enough about possible litigation to pull our board down. As for what I _personally_ think about him, yeah. And I would probably argue that he is in open conversation. After all, what would the world care how I feel? But, putting it in print and distributing it to thousands of people? Surely you see my concern. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/15 "2004-12-19T01:13:16Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Could we have a cite on that “known” in the thread title? > > Or does the OP know something for a fact that the courts don’t yet? > > I have no axe to grind here. Jacko is a basket case. But it’s justs the whole innocent until proven deal, you know. Being a pedophile isn’t a matter for the courts. Being a molester is. There is a difference. A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to children, but such a person can not (and should not) be considered “guilty” of anything until they commit a crime. There is not (yet) thought crimes in this country. ) It is not contested that Jackson “loves children” and slept in the same bed with a young boy, and is know that he wrote the boy love letters, in which he called him “Rubba” for reasons I do not care to wonder about ([http://crime.allinfoabout.com/michaeljackson/rubba.html](http://crime.allinfoabout.com/michaeljackson/rubba.html)). That makes him a pedophile. To call him a molester may be libel, though it would have to be proven I knowingly lied with malice and forethought. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/16 "2004-12-19T01:17:41Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > To you and me, sure. > > For a publication like, say, _The Chicago Reader_, it brings up the very real problem of **libel**. That’s all I’m really concerned about. I would hate to see a board of directors get worried enough about possible litigation to pull our board down. > > As for what I _personally_ think about him, yeah. And I would probably argue that he is in open conversation. After all, what would the world care how I feel? But, putting it in print and distributing it to thousands of people? Surely you see my concern. There are thousands of blogs and opinion pieces online alleging that Jackson is a pedophile. Amazingly, none have been snuffed out by Jackson’s lawyers, who are much too busy keeping his skinny ass out of prison right now to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/17 "2004-12-19T01:30:15Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > From the article: God, I hope ‘Santa Claus’ isn’t his little name for it… Naw, Santa only comes once a year. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/18 "2004-12-19T01:52:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Naw, Santa only comes once a year. I so did not need that image. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/19 "2004-12-19T03:44:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You said it, **Arky**. I suspect that if Charles Manson was out of jail, some of these parents would have him babysit their kids. Only slightly facetiously… Charlie Manson wasnt a pedophile, he might try to brainwash your kids into killing mommy and daddy, but I dont think he would try to shag them… Actually, I would have to reread crime files, but I dont think he actually killed anybody in the Tate-LaBianca murders, I think he only planned and incited…Not that he isnt purely nuts, and deserves to be in the slammer for life. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548/20 "2004-12-19T04:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > [Jackson spokeswoman Raymone] Bain said charitable and civic groups bring children to Neverland at least three times a month to play on the amusement park rides, see its zoo and watch movies. Neverland, in the scenic Santa Barbara County countryside, is a fairy-tale theme park with streams, waterfalls and a lake. The grounds are decorated with bronze statues of children at play. The only unusual thing here is that Jackson was there. And I’d like to add my voice to the chorus: Jackson is a supected molestor, not a “known pedophile.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/known-pedophile-brings-in-kids-by-the-busload/280548.md?page=2)