# Kobal 2 should not be suspended **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Tags:** suspension-banning\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031 "2015-06-09T01:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/201 "2015-06-11T20:22:56Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Do you NOT get the following point? > > There is a difference between calling out a supposed dog whistle and HOW you do it. > > Let me repeat that. > > HOW YOU DO IT. I get that. And I’m pretty okay with how Kobal handled it. Let me repeat that. I’M PRETTY OKAY WITH HOW KOBAL HANDLED IT. It’s good to see a little passion in posts. It’s not going to hurt you. Not everything needs to be distilled down into a polite little nugget around here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/202 "2015-06-11T20:36:02Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I get that. And I’m pretty okay with how Kobal handled it. > > Let me repeat that. > > I’M PRETTY OKAY WITH HOW KOBAL HANDLED IT. So, theorectically speaking, you’d be okay with me claiming that right now you are thinking that I’m thinking “nigger nigger nigger niggers niggers” right now? Or any other random thing that I may happen to think you think I’m thinking? And, not only that, I can put your thoughts that I know your thinking in most crude provocative way possible? And, not only that squared, even if you are okay with that, that the mods and most posters here should be okay with that as well? Heck, why even read other peoples posts. Lets just pretend we know what others are thinking and express them in rude crude ways so we can instantly dismiss them for the evil people we already know they are. Should save everyone a bunch of time and energy. Heck squared. I don’t even need to actually think your thinking something. I’ll must make up stuff I think your thinking to win the arguement. But nobody will be able to tell I’m making up stuff I think your thinking. I’ll just tell em honest Injun, I know that’s what you are thinking. Because, hey its obvious that thats whats your thinking. Fix all the your yourself. I’m too busy thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/203 "2015-06-11T20:40:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So, theorectically speaking, you’d be okay with me claiming that right now you are thinking that I’m thinking “nigger nigger nigger niggers niggers” right now? > > Or any other random thing that I may happen to think you think I’m thinking? And, not only that, I can put your thoughts that I know your thinking in most crude provocative way possible? Which one bothers you? In your previous post you suggested you were ok with the idea of Kobal claiming he knew what davida was thinking, but he needed to say it in a less crude way. If it’s the former, I think there’s a reasonable inference test you can apply. If it’s just the crudeness, then this entire post was kinda off point. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/204 "2015-06-11T21:01:40Z")
Personally I would not use that word in GD or the Pit. I think that there are better ways to score points. Not that it matters now. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/205 "2015-06-11T21:21:29Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Which one bothers you? In your previous post you suggested you were ok with the idea of Kobal claiming he knew what davida was thinking, but he needed to say it in a less crude way. No, I said claiming dog whistle in a polite way is different than claiming mind reading skills and putting it crudely to top it off. I think the whole “I know what your thinking thing” is BS. The “I know what your thinking” and will put it as crudely as possible and attribute said crudeness to you is just taking it to the next wrong level. So, you have wrong once, wrong twice, wrong thriced IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/206 "2015-06-11T21:36:03Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > No, I said claiming dog whistle in a polite way is different than claiming mind reading skills and putting it crudely to top it off. Claiming dog whistle is claiming “mind-reading skills” as you’d put it, or “basic ability to infer intent based on words stated in the context of facts on the ground” as I would. That’s actually what it means. The crude vs. polite is a different axis. > [@](#): > > I think the whole “I know what your thinking thing” is BS. If you really want to enshrine this as the billfish678 principle, maybe you could quite setting up strawmen like: [QUOTE=you] Hey, everybody that’s a dog whistle in case you didn’t notice! Hey, everybody we all know he’s just thinking nigger nigger nigger niggers niggers! Seriously, you don’t see any difference in that? [/QUOTE] Cause that’s just flat-out putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say, didn’t mean, and don’t agree with. Of course, I don’t believe in the billfish678 principle. First, I’ve never seen a warning given with its basis before. But second, I think it’s reasonable to attempt to extrapolate from others’ arguments. To put them in context or take them to their logical conclusions. The fact that you did so poorly in this example doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/207 "2015-06-11T21:38:49Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Specifically, the statement by **Jonathan Chance** that his remark by itself qualified for a suspension on its merits, independent of any other posting history. > > That is at odds with all prior moderating history and Ed’s stated rules for how this board is moderated. I would like either an acknowledgement from staff that this remains the case, or a prominent announcement that the rules have changed and now one bad post from an otherwise non-offending poster can get you banned. > > An acknowledgement from **Jonathan Chance** that he misspoke would be sufficient. There is no rule about the number of warnings that will get you suspended or banned. As has repeatedly been said, this is decided on a case by case basis. Many many short term trolls have been banned for a single post, without prior warning. (They may be gone so quickly you haven’t noticed them.) This is standard practice on this board. In any case, you are in error about precedent on this matter. [Just over a month ago another poster was suspended for a week for a particular post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18322781) This poster had fewer other warnings than **Kobal2.** In the case of long term posters we generally suspend before banning (although we don’t have to.) In **Kobal2** ’s case and the one above the posters were suspended. I don’t recall any cases of long term posters, who had no prior offenses or behavioral problems, who were banned for a single offensive post. However, I wouldn’t rule out that it could happen in a particularly severe case. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/208 "2015-06-11T22:05:31Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Claiming dog whistle is claiming “mind-reading skills” as you’d put it, or “basic ability to infer intent based on words stated in the context of facts on the ground” as I would. > > Parts deleted > > Cause that’s just flat-out putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say, didn’t mean, and don’t agree with. > > More parts deleted. > . Oh, the irony. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/209 "2015-06-11T22:06:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t recall any cases of long term posters, who had no prior offenses or behavioral problems, who were banned for a single offensive post. . Oh, in the far past that used to happen. **Satan** ,\*\* Danielinthewolvesden\*\*, and maybe some others. But yeah, that was 2001 and before. Not any of your doing. And of course perhaps there were “behavioral problems” with them. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/210 "2015-06-11T22:13:38Z")
“honest Injun”? \<_blu…_\> Hmm. I was going to put \<_blushes_\>, but then I realized, even if someone here could see me, who could tell the difference? ([Red man](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/red+man)). BTW, Colibri, I followed your link (and its link). Yowser, what an egregious post. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/211 "2015-06-11T22:15:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Again, many of us disagree that the post was in any way shape or form a “dog whistle”. Look, can we at least all agree that [this](http://i.imgur.com/MSJfgDg.png) is a racist dog whistle? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/212 "2015-06-11T22:22:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > **Satan** ,\*\* Danielinthewolvesden\*\*, and maybe some others. **Satan** certainly wasn’t banned over a single post, but had other problems as well. There was a single post that precipitated **Danielinthewolvesden’s** banning, but since warnings weren’t formalized or recorded back then I don’t know if there were previous issues involved. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/213 "2015-06-11T22:40:10Z")
Danielinthewolvesden was before my time. A quick search shows he was pitted frequently. What was the single post that ended him? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/214 "2015-06-12T00:49:08Z")
It seems to me that DITWD was banned for a pattern of behavior. Scroll down to post 25. [Danielinthewolvesden's Ninth Pit Thread - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=61819) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/215 "2015-06-12T01:31:11Z")
Thanks for that. I don’t understand the problem, though. Isn’t that type of nastiness allowed in the Pit, where he posted it? (Which is why I don’t post there) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/216 "2015-06-12T01:46:01Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Thanks for that. > > I don’t understand the problem, though. Isn’t that type of nastiness allowed in the Pit, where he posted it? (Which is why I don’t post there) I believe the posts that finally got **Danielinthewolvesden** banned were in other forums, mainly Great Debates, in which he implied a Jewish poster was using Nazi techniques (the Big Lie). The issues are discussed to some extent in the linked thread. I was in error; I thought there might have been a single post but it seems there were several of similar kind. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/217 "2015-06-12T02:08:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I believe the posts that finally got **Danielinthewolvesden** banned were in other forums, mainly Great Debates, in which he implied a Jewish poster was using Nazi techniques (the Big Lie). The issues are discussed to some extent in the linked thread. I was in error; I thought there might have been a single post but it seems there were several of similar kind. I am not defending him or satan, the banning appears justified for that time period, but they claimed on other boards to have not received any warnings. Daniel certainly seems to have gone off there at the end, and I’ll bet now he would have just been suspended for a while to cool off. But that was then, this is now, and the board is moderated somewhat differently. And, I think better. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/218 "2015-06-12T03:58:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am not defending him or satan, the banning appears justified for that time period, but they claimed on other boards to have not received any warnings. In the [announcement of **Satan’s** banning,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=62742) it’s mentioned that he was warned a number of times, and at least a couple are linked to. It’s certainly not true he received no previous warnings. Back in that Precambrian era, warnings and bannings were less formalized. But even then, posters who otherwise behaved well were not banned for a single post. Normally a pattern of bad behavior had already been established. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/219 "2015-06-12T06:18:57Z")
Wow. Huh. So. These have been a few days full of surprises for me. The first, obviously, was logging on to this here board I spend so much goddamn time on with my morning coffee\_equivalent, to be greeted with a blank screen and a ban for “hate speech & multiple warnings”. So that was confusing - I knew exactly which post that was referring to obviously, but equally obviously I had (clumsily) been engaging in exactly the opposite. That is to say, as many of you understood and tried to explain in this thread : point-blanking what I’d - apparently mistakenly - assessed as a coy, oblique way of spouting racist crap without looking like it with the \*actual \*ugliness lurking beneath. Because fuck me but that crap is all over the internet these days, and it _should_ look as ugly as it fucking well is. If only to shake people out of their complacency for that kind of stuff. Racism & prejudice, no matter how tastefully or weasel-y wrapped, and no matter who it’s targeting, \*\*should \*\*be bloody shocking in this day and age. It \*\*should \*\*be outfuckingrageous. And no, **Colibri** , it was not gratuitous - I was making a point, and the word was absolutely essential to the gut-punching viscerality of that point. TL;DR, if anything it was an attempt at hate-speech _judo_. Turning the hate against itself and all that jazz. I’m not saying it was clever, or opportune, or tasteful or anything of the sort - I’d just hate to have a red KKK on my SDMB jacket over a misunderstanding. I’m not a racist, I don’t even have a single black friend - _that’s_ how secure I am in my colour-blindness :). (BTW **Grotonian** , French does have an equivalent word - “nègre”. I don’t believe it’s quite as much of a nuclear word in French usage as it is in US English, certainly not to the point where we’d coin new words to refer to the word without saying it. That would be cuckoo ;). But it’s still a horrible, hateful word that isn’t acceptable at all any more. It’ll certainly cause screeching brakes and needle scratches in conversation, if you follow my meaning. Which makes it as tactically useful as “nigger”.) But be that as it may, and regardless of the validity or lack thereof of that stunt, I know I shouldn’t have blown up like a claymore mine at that poster ; and honestly I couldn’t tell you quite why I did. Well, I mean, I know why (i.e. anger at perceived bigotry) but not \*why \*why. Why a two-liner by some guy I don’t know from Adam, and who it turns out was just guilty of cluelessness, got under my skin so bad. This is the Internet. People being wrong, even aggressively and fractally wrong, is expected. Then you have another cup of coffee. Maybe I was triggered by his choice of username - have you guys noticed how people with digits in their handle always turn out to be insufferable assholes ? 😉 I dunno. I guess sometimes the nigh-ubiquitous rank stupidity of this unbearable world manages to sneak past one’s well-honed sardonic sense of humour and cheerfully hopeless existential despair, and when it does it gets you so goddamn _pissed off_, man, you don’t even know. In any event, the message that came with the suspension, to whit “try to control your temper when you come back”, was not altogether unwarranted and I don’t begrudge the mods for it, or the warning itself. Which is why I accepted it when it was issued. It was a fair cop, guv. Getting three whole months of timeout over it did seem a little harsh, and caused quite a bit of distress this side of the screen (funny story, first I thought I’d been banned for good ; then I noticed there was an end date. The end date for the suspension was presumably automagically provided in the French format, that is to say dd/mm/yyyy ; but this being an American board and because there was no separation between said auto-generated date and the mod note I had assumed… yeah), especially since it was so binary. One day you get a warning, the next _boom_. No sound, no picture no more, without so much as a by your leave. Being restricted from posting is one thing, but reading altogether ? It’s quite the brutally efficient “fuck off”, I gotta say. Penis ensued. Which brings me to the biggest surprise of 'em all. So I couldn’t log on with my computer, but my GF also has an account, even though she doesn’t post very much at all. Which allowed me to try and figure out what the fuck, which led me to this thread and let me follow it some - though I didn’t dare post under her name for fear of getting her kicked on socking charges or somesuch. It was a great, wholly unexpected surprise to read the “outrage” of the first few pages, the kind words y’all had for this semi-anonymous jerkass who heretofore expected all these shenanigans to have barely been a blip on the radar. Very surreal moment, halfway between a Sally Fieldesque “They like me ! They really \*like \*me !” and ghosting your own funeral, being floored by those who bothered to show up. So, to whosoever it may concern, thank you \*\*very \*\*much for that gentle strum right on my narcissistic feels, and your spirited defence which evidently had something to do with why I’m allowed back so soon. Not sure I deserve it, ‘cause, you know, I really am kind of an asshole when it comes right down to it. And I’m aware a few of you only did it for the opportunity to get all up in our semirand() jackbooted thugs’ shit (:p). But regardless, if this were a bar, I’d buy you all a twelfth round and slur-speak how much I love you guys, no but no, guys, guys, GUYS, you don’t understand, I said I _love_ you guys. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/220 "2015-06-12T06:37:05Z")
It’s too bad your suspension didn’t happen a month from now on July 11th. If it had, you would have been set free by popular revolt on July 14th. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031.md?page=12)