# Kobal 2 should not be suspended **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Tags:** suspension-banning\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031 "2015-06-09T01:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/81 "2015-06-09T21:22:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Where does this come up? Has anyone suggested any such rule? It is the rough equivalent of your suggestion that we not be permitted to discuss prejudice unless that prejudice is directly stated or implied. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > For that price you could tell people to object to being impugned any other way that they need to suck it up too. You can take that up with the admins of this board. But meanwhile, ISTM that calling people racists is fundamentally similar to other types of forbidden insults and not similar to saying people’s views on some issue are biased or mistaken (as you initially suggested). It depends on what criterion you use to distinguish insults from suggestions of bias or mistake. I think the relevant criterion is relevance to the discussion. It doesn’t aid the discussion if I call someone a moron or an asshole. It does aid the discussion for me to say that their opinions are incorrect because they are based on prejudice. I acknowledge that mods obviously draw the line in a different place, as is their right. I think they use criteria that include the likelihood of the thread being derailed. But I find that to be a very bad criterion because it is predictive and I think we are very bad at such predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/82 "2015-06-09T21:59:05Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It is the rough equivalent of your suggestion that we not be permitted to discuss prejudice unless that prejudice is directly stated or implied. You’re conflating what my personal preferences are with what the rules of this board are or should be. I made the comments you refer to in response to your statement about my “sensitive feelings”, and at that point I was commenting on my personal preferences. But beyond that, I’m not suggesting that no one should characterize something as racist unless the holder of that view agrees that it’s racist (which is what you imply in referring to “someone admit[ing] to being racist”). I was just saying that the ostensible racist should at least agree that they hold this view. That’s something else entirely. > [@](#): > > It depends on what criterion you use to distinguish insults from suggestions of bias or mistake. I think the relevant criterion is relevance to the discussion. It doesn’t aid the discussion if I call someone a moron or an asshole. It does aid the discussion for me to say that their opinions are incorrect because they are based on prejudice. I suppose there is some very small possibility that calling someone a racist will cause them to rethink their position and retract it in a rational way. But this is drowned out by the personal attack aspect, IMO, and I think it’s more similar to just calling them stupid or any other personal insult. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/83 "2015-06-09T22:21:09Z")
I am having the hardest time finding these additional warnings using Google. Have they been linked somewhere? ETA I don’t mean to imply that they don’t exist or anything like that. i am just curious. And nosy, as well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/84 "2015-06-09T22:53:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Which is an argument for Kobal2 being wrong. But we don’t mod based on whether a person is right or wrong in their opinions. > > I think this is the meat of your argument, and I just disagree. We don’t apply that standard to any other preconceptions. If I think your view is based on ignorance about or bias about the Fourth Amendment, I’m entitled to point that out even if it should turn out that your view was actually about something else entirely. The nature of free give-and-take in debate forums is the ability to challenge perceived preconceptions in the other side. > > There might be a line to be drawn between the argument and the motivation for choosing that argument, but that is quite different from trying to draw a line between the argument and the (incorrect) analytical premises that undergird it. > > So…what? You’re allowed to say someone is a little bit racist but not really really racist? Surely that kind of line-drawing is not what you propose. I think your whole argument really turns on the paragraph before this one. No, I think that if you’re going to imply that someone is racist, there needs to be some hook in the post that most readers would linked to racism. If not, then expect to be mod’ed. If you turn the volume up to 11, by essentially calling someone a Klan member, then expect that you might be suspended. The mod action is, to some extent, proportional to the degree with which you castigate the poster. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/85 "2015-06-09T23:05:04Z")
First warning issue by **Gaudere**!! 1-24-2009 Personal insult [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) 2nd warning-2-26-2011,by **Gukumatz** , advocating copyright infringement/piracy. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) 3rd warning, 6-8-2012 by **tomndeb** for personal insults. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454) 4th warning, 4-19-2014 for being a jerk-by **Jon Chance**. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16) Fifth warning, 5-28-2014 by **Jonathan Chance** for being a jerk [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73) While you may not see it was an official warning, it was and was conveyed to **Kobal** and he understood. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/86 "2015-06-09T23:06:52Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > First warning issue by **Gaudere**!! 1-24-2009 Personal insult > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) > > 2nd warning-2-26-2011,by **Gukumatz** , advocating copyright infringement/piracy. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) What copyright was infringed, the copyright on the previous warning’s link? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/87 "2015-06-09T23:08:24Z")
Only one I can find is this one from 2009 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10739223&highlight=warning+kobal2#post10739223](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10739223&highlight=warning+kobal2#post10739223) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/88 "2015-06-09T23:14:27Z")
I don’t think the “nigger” post should have gotten a warning, nor should Kobal2 have been suspended. It’s not putting words in someone’s mouth to say what you think they are thinking and/or implying. Or, if it is and if that is against the rules, a lot of GD threads need to be shut down right now. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/89 "2015-06-09T23:20:57Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > First warning issue by **Gaudere**!! 1-24-2009 Personal insult > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) > > 2nd warning-2-26-2011,by **Gukumatz** , advocating copyright infringement/piracy. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) > > 3rd warning, 6-8-2012 by **tomndeb** for personal insults. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454) > > 4th warning, 4-19-2014 for being a jerk-by **Jon Chance**. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16) > Fifth warning, 5-28-2014 by **Jonathan Chance** for being a jerk > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73) > > While you may not see it was an official warning, it was and was conveyed to **Kobal** and he understood. Thanks for indulging my nosy nature. The second link is a duplicate, but I get the gist. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/90 "2015-06-09T23:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=samclem;184265202nd warning-2-26-2011,by **Gukumatz** , advocating copyright infringement/piracy. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174[/QUOTE]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174%5B/QUOTE%5D) That’s the same link as the previous one. This is the correct link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13509555&postcount=160](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13509555&postcount=160) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/91 "2015-06-09T23:24:52Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think the “nigger” post should have gotten a warning, You’re OK with allowing the gratuitous and unnecessary use of the word “nigger” on this site? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/92 "2015-06-09T23:26:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since I was the one who warned him, I can say I wasn’t confused. . This style of unfoundede non-familar statement makes me all kinds of butt-hurt, LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/93 "2015-06-09T23:27:16Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Why hasn’t anyone linked to the other warnings? Is it because, as I suspect, they were trivial nonsense? The answer to this was already posted: > [@Colibri](#): > > Four warnings in the past 15 months and six total. **Jonathan** **didn’t link to the other warnings because they were more than a year old.** But while **we attach less significance to warnings the older they are** , fifteen months is not outside the time period we may consider, especially for similar offenses. Both the warnings from last year were for jerkish remarks. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/94 "2015-06-09T23:34:52Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > First warning issue by **Gaudere**!! 1-24-2009 Personal insult > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) > > 2nd warning-2-26-2011,by **Gukumatz** , advocating copyright infringement/piracy. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10739223&postcount=174) > > 3rd warning, 6-8-2012 by **tomndeb** for personal insults. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15146413&postcount=454) > > 4th warning, 4-19-2014 for being a jerk-by **Jon Chance**. > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17304748&postcount=16) > Fifth warning, 5-28-2014 by **Jonathan Chance** for being a jerk > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17413211&postcount=73) Counting the two recent ones, that’s actually seven warnings in all. I missed the first one by Gaudere since it wasn’t in the automated system. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/95 "2015-06-10T00:04:49Z")
Ok, 7 warnings. Wow. I adjusted the count by giving warnings over 18 months fewer points: 18-24 months: .9 point and 24-36 months: .8 point 36-48 months: .7 point, etc. These are my arbitrarily defined weights, not the mods. ```auto Weight Adjusted 6/8/2015 4 1 4 12/7/2013 0 0.9 0 6/8/2013 1 0.8 0.8 6/7/2012 0 0.7 0 6/8/2011 1 0.6 0.6 6/8/2010 0 0.5 0 6/8/2009 1 0.4 0.4 6/7/2008 0 0.3 0 Total 7 5.8 ``` In my view, Kobal2 was operating ok-though-not-optimal through 12/7/2013. Then bam, 4 warnings in a year and a half. That’s a lot. And yet nobody outside of the mod loop seems to have noticed. I think that counts for something, though I’m not sure what. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/96 "2015-06-10T00:19:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, I think that if you’re going to imply that someone is racist, there needs to be some hook in the post that most readers would linked to racism. Asking mods to assess whether an accusation of racism is based on sufficient evidence or not is an even worse rule than just saying no accusations of racism. At least the latter rule can be applied evenly, as far as it goes. There are a lot of shifting rationales for why modding the “nigger” post was legitimate. Some of the rationales are stronger than others. For example, I think it is an especially weak rationale to characterize the post as putting words in someone else’s mouth, or to retroactively justify the warning by the poster’s mea culpa or admission that he was being provocative. Each individual rationale doesn’t really hold up on inspection, IMHO. But I’m prepared to concede that the whole may be more than the sum of its parts. And having learned of the other warnings, I am less surprised by the suspension. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/97 "2015-06-10T00:25:34Z")
Following Much Discussion On the Mod Loop… We have elected to moderate (hah!) Kobal2’s suspension to 3 days as a means of catching his attention. The intent of the suspension is to communicate the seriousness with which we take his post with the ‘nigger nigger nigger’ content. Use of such language - from anyone - in the future had better have a damn good reason or they too can expect to earn a serious and immediate consideration for sanction as well. Kobal2 will return in two days, one day of his suspension having already been served. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/98 "2015-06-10T01:00:03Z")
To mix metaphors, I think you just split the baby with the bathwater after the cradle’s done gone under the bridge, Jonathan. Yeah, I don’t know what that means either. 😛 This seams a reasonable if not ideologically pure compromise. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/99 "2015-06-10T01:19:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > If their existence played a role in the decision to suspend, then they should have been included in the suspension notice. Haven’t looked at the warnings. Don’t particularly care, for the purposes of my post, about whether or not they were justified. But **Frank** ’s observation is absolutely correct. If a warning—no matter how old—is taken into consideration when suspending or banning a poster, then that warning should be included in the announcement. If the warning is too old to post, then it shouldn’t be used in the evaluation; if it’s used in the evaluation, it should be posted. It’s pretty depressing that this even needs to be pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031/100 "2015-06-10T01:28:51Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Following Much Discussion On the Mod Loop… > > We have elected to moderate (hah!) Kobal2’s suspension to 3 days as a means of catching his attention. > > The intent of the suspension is to communicate the seriousness with which we take his post with the ‘nigger nigger nigger’ content. Use of such language - from anyone - in the future had better have a damn good reason or they too can expect to earn a serious and immediate consideration for sanction as well. > > Kobal2 will return in two days, one day of his suspension having already been served. Seems a very reasonable and wise decision that achieves the goal of demonstrating to him the seriousness yet shows fairness as well. Thanks guys! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobal-2-should-not-be-suspended/722031.md?page=6)