Kobe Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

Great Debates
41

Not necessarily. In many jobs where employees come into contact with celebrities they are not allowed to ask for autographs while they are working. The alleged victim may have had to wait until after her shift before she was allowed to ask for an autograph. Such a policy would not be at all uncommon.

Accuser ODed…basket case?

Tried out for American Idol…seeks fame?

Her friends also failed to mention her overdosing. Accident? Ha. **
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She auditioned for American Idol and she may have attempted suicide. How is either one of those things a “character” issue?

How does either one of those things have fuck-all to do with whether she was assaulted or not?

42

I think the presumption is that she was not assulted, and showing that she is some loony fame-seeker speaks to her character, and possible willingness to do whatever to become ‘famous’.

Or not. Unless Kobe is caught on tape, eating his neighbors baby, does anyone think he will spend day one in prison?

43

Neither one of those things shows that she is either loony nor a fame seeker. Even if she were those things. looney fame seekers can still be raped.

44

DtC

Sorry if this seems like a nitpick, but shouldn’t you have said that the friends said that the alleged victim said that there was vaginal tearing? Unless the friends actually verified this personally.

schplebordnik

Because our culture stigmatizes drug use. Notice that he didn’t say that this shows that she was not raped, only that it will make it harder to press charges.

45

My goodness. The attitude in this thread towards alleged rape victims is terrifying and hugely offensive. Character assaults on women who claim to be raped as a defense of the accused are something that I was hoping we could leave behind in the twentieth century. Apparently this isn’t the case.

DtC has repeatedly pointed out that even loony attention-seekers can be raped.

Are you saying that no, loony attention-seekers (especially ones who go into men’s hotel rooms) cannot be raped? Or just that American juries believe that to be so?

Either way, I am saddened and sickened. G*d, I hope you never have a loved one who could, in any way, be percieved to be a loony attention-seeker.

46

Am I the only one getting flashbacks of Anita Hill here?

Not to say that Kobe is as bad as Clarence Thomas, but the predisposition of some folks to “blame the victim” is rather disturbing.

47

UK. Sorry, I was bored.

48

Not as bad? If Anita Hill told the truth, Clarence Thomas was guilty of nothing more than trash talk. If Kobe’s accuser is telling the truth, Kobe is guilty of rape.

Or is TALKING about sex really worse than rape, in your eyes?

49

It’s not clear at this point what the facts are. IMHO It’s premature at this point to say that Kobe raped her OR that she’s lying. Not enough evidence is present to really say what occurred. Those who are taking positions on such flimsy info as “She tried out for American Idol” or “He’s a wealthy man who can get sluts whenever he wants” are saying more about themselves IMO than about the merits of their positions.

50

No, my intent was that Kobe Bryant has not been found guilty yet, so I wasn’t comfortable saying he’s worse than Clarence Thomas, professional sexual harrasser. I will revise my opinions of Mr. Bryant once the dust settles and the verdict is in, not before.

51

The fact that she filed the charges the next day, rather than waiting for just the right moment when her charges could most severely damage Bryant’s career does lend her additional credibility in my mind.

52

The fact that she filed the charges the next day, rather than waiting for just the right moment when her charges could most severely damage Bryant’s career, does lend her additional credibility in my mind.

53

Unfortunately, they are something that may never be left behind.

The reason is that rape cases very often turn into he said/she said ordeals. The evidence for rape can look exactly like evidence that they just had sex, in many cases.

If personal character is the most important thing in the case, and the accused is already being attacked, then it seems the only option for the accused is to attack the character of the accuser.

While I am appalled at the attacks on the character of a woman who claims to be raped, I must admit that if I were ever falsely accused of rape I might attack the character of the person accusing me.

Would you do any different if you were falsely accused?

54

There’s just as much rush to judgement against Kobe in this thread. The victim attempted suicide, yet we’re supposed to ignore that? NO, of course that doesn’t mean she wasn’t raped, but it does and should be used to weigh her credibilty. This case like many “date” rape cases always comes down to a matter of credibility…being self-destructive doesn’t help her.

Let me ask you this, if a woman came be a nanny for your children and you found out, during the interview that she attempted suicide; would you let her? Would that past incident, prevent her from being a great nanny today? I guess not, but I wouldn’t have her. I am I being unfair or realistic?

Granted Kobe’s credibility isn’t that great either…a man who cheats on his recently pregant wife, is pretty low in my opinion. He’s PROVEN that he’s a lair.

So I think that maybe we ought to wait and see how this shapes up.

55

holmes, please explain how a suicide attempt has anything to do with credibility or honesty. Do you think that someone who has attempted suicide can’t be raped?

What about the fact that Kobe cheats on his wife? Doesn’t that undercut his own credibility? Adultery is after all an act of dishonesty unlike a suicide attempt.

56

Re-read my post, but maybe I wasn’t clear…

Yes anyone who attemptes suicide has a mental problem. Are we now to believe that suicide is the act of a rational person? Do you KNOW, what her state of mind was when she met Kobe? Was she under medication? Is she bi-polar? I don’t know. If it’s proven she was under some medication or missed her meds, doesn’t that go to credibility? Did she drink? What effect does booze have with any medication she MAY be on?

Even so, she still may have been raped. I’m not saying she wasn’t. One more time, I am not saying she wasn’t raped.

She may be fine, and Kobe may have raped her. I’m not saying he didn’t. However I have a problem, with this “protect the victim at all costs”, when we know she has a had a problem, one strong enough to cause her to try to end her life.

And ONCE again, no that doesn’t mean she wasn’t raped and no that doesn’t mean isn’t being truthful. However it smacks of dishonestly to IGNORE that she has a ‘history’ of mental illness…unless you don’t think suicide is a mental illness…even temporary.

And yes AGAIN, Kobe’s honesty isn’t great either and while he’s a proven liar, but there’s a reason for his lies. He didn’t want to get caught. That doesn’t mean he lied because he raped her.

i say again, we need a lot more information.

57

on Dan Patrick’s radio show yesterday, they said that there is a report that the girl had previously been with Kobe before that night. ESPN has a policy of getting two sources and since they only had one, they didn’t “report” it…although they did anyways just by mentioning it. If true, the defense attorney is going to make her look like a slut with a suicide problem on the stand which will affect her credibility…if they let the evidence in.

This case is starting to remind me of that Kennedy rape case years ago…I wonder if this girl will have selective memory too.

No one likes to admit it, but race will be a factor here. The county in which the girl lives is 85% white with blacks making up less than one percent per a sports radio show here this morning.

58

See, the problem with arguments that assault the character of the alleged victim is that they assume what DtC keeps yelling to the hills: that people with characteristic X can’t be raped.

For instance, using this argument, if you could find someone that attempted suicide (or has whatever characteristic X is) you could go and fuck her, with impunity, since she can’t be raped and no jury would convict you. Basically denying such people the right to say “no” to sex. I don’t believe that any woman should be denied this right, no matter how “crazy” or “attention-seeking” she is, or if she’s promiscious, or had sex with him already, or if she thought she might want to but changed her mind, or whatever.

I firmly believe that these kinds of character traits should not be involved in the trial. Look at the evidence as it is, presume the man innocent until proven guilty, but for goodness sake, don’t put the woman’s previous history on trial. It has nothing to do with the case at hand, and is permitted only because of the assumption that some kinds of women can’t be raped, or don’t have the right to say no.

Please, honestly consider what your thoughts would be if someone you cared about had a mental illness, and was raped. Would you disbelieve her because of her mental illness? Would you think that the illness justified the rape?

It’s easy for us to sit here and look “objectively” at the situation and conclude that she is nothing more than a loony attention-seeker and therefore must be lying. But think about the implications this has for women in general.

It’s a very hard question because you do need to balance with the rights of the accused, and sometimes men are falsely accused of rape. I don’t know the statistics (maybe one of you does?) but I am fairly certain that the frequency of women falsely alleging rape, and putting themselves under the scrutiny and criticism that will result (from people such as yourselves, and the media, and so on) is much much smaller than many would have us believe.

Boo - you say race will be a factor - what race is the accuser?

59

Cite?

60

she is white