# Kobe Bryant: F\*\*\*\*\*g Fa\*\*\*\*! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 13, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280 "2011-04-13T21:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/21 "2011-04-14T12:25:07Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > No matter the fine, it will be a pittance compared to his personal fortune … Ah, monetary Tourette’s. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/22 "2011-04-14T12:32:18Z")
The greater price for incidents like this is with the hit he can take in the salability of endorsements. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/23 "2011-04-14T13:10:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think it’s taken out of his salary, so he doesn’t get the income in the first place. But I’m not positive about that. > > We’re not going to solve the “gay = stupid” argument here (we’ve done it before), but I will say I don’t really buy into that line of thinking and even if you do, I don’t Kobe comes off any better. Do “we” ever solve any arguments here? Basically never, when it comes to people’s ingrained feelings on certain matters. The issue seems to be that people like saying “fucking faggot” and “stupid nigger” and they figure since they use those words, they own those words and all they have to do is keep using them, then claim that everyone uses them and all it means is “lame” and oversensitive people are lame, not the people who like to use certain words like faggot and nigger. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/24 "2011-04-14T13:22:32Z")
If someone wanted to attack the gay community they could think of a better phrase than the same one teens use to insult each other over video games. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/25 "2011-04-14T13:25:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Do “we” ever solve any arguments here? Basically never, when it comes to people’s ingrained feelings on certain matters. I’m just ackowledging that there are differing opinions on that issue and that I’m not eager to get into it again. But here I am anyway. > [@](#): > > The issue seems to be that people like saying “fucking faggot” and “stupid nigger” and they figure since they use those words, they own those words and all they have to do is keep using them, then claim that everyone uses them and all it means is “lame” and oversensitive people are lame, not the people who like to use certain words like faggot and nigger. That’s actually not a bad summary, although it doesn’t include the “that’s not what it means” part. > [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > But that doesn’t change the fact that it has become, in most circles and especially in mine growing up, a standard issue insult with no meaning whatsoever (and I’m younger than Kobe). Are we still talking about the word faggot? I’ve never ever heard it used that way. I’ve heard gay used as meaning lame and such, but I have never ever encountered this. If you call someone a faggot, you’re calling them a homosexual. And if that we’re now hearing “faggot != homosexual,” that pretty much kills the “gay != homosexual” thing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/26 "2011-04-14T13:29:57Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Good. > > Is that income still taxable, or can he write it off? I believe you can write it off as a charitable donation, sice that money does eventually get donated to charity. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I disagree except for the part about it not being a hate crime. Kobe’s not a 14 year old boy, he DOES know the word is specifically and has always been applied to gay men. And I beg to differ that ‘faggot’ doesn’t have any connection to gays- that’s exactly what it means and what it’s always meant since I’ve been alive and I’m older than Kobe. A few words may have lost their former connections- “bitch” may be a unisex slur now with no real gender connotations (once Bob Barker’s used it in a movie it’s mainstream) or even ‘cocksucker’ which was reborn a bit by _Deadwood_, but faggot is still spendable currency as a gay slur. I think we can all sympathize with what you gone through, but your logic here is terribly flawed. Cocksucker is clearly still “spendable currency” as a gay slur, and bitch still has obvious gender connoectios. Most of the time, when men call other men a bitch, they are implying they are acting too womanly, or not manly enough. If Bryant, who I hate btw, had called the ref a bitch, few would say he is demeaning women despite the sematic connection. They wouldn’t say that because that’s clearly not his intent. The same applies to his use of the word faggot. Clearly it’s not something that should be said, but let’s not unnecessarily escalate or personalize this. I was just an offhandedly attempt to be cruel. > [@Sampiro](#): > > When I’ve been called that word, and I have, I can absofuckinglutely assure you that it was very gay specific, and I think most gays would agree with me. When you read about bullied gay youth, it’s consistently and without exception what they were called and it’s very gay specific. But Kobe didn’t say it to you. Are you trying to argue that he was trying to comment on the ref’s sexuality? > [@Sampiro](#): > > Had Kobe called the referee an asshole or a shithead or a fuckwad or a motherfucker or a cocksucker… Really? You think if he’d called you or the ref a cocksucker, people wouldn’t have though he was trying to make a more direct reference to sexuality? That cocksucker isn’t really connected to anything offensive to a group? > [@Sampiro](#): > > Instead he calls him a still currently used everyday to bully kids all over the country (some of them gay, some suspected of being gays, some being ‘jokingly’ equated with gays) and because evidently it’s the worst thing he can think of at the moment. Perhaps it’s a byproduct of your baggage that you assume he thinks it’s the worst thing he can say at the moment. I guess that understandable given your history, but it’s a faulty assumption nonetheless. > [@Sampiro](#): > > He also does this knowing he’s a role model to black youth- he’s referred to himself as such- and knowing that the black community as a whole (major exceptions on the individual level of course) has major homophobic baggage that will only be reinforced by this. That is apropos of nothing. Even if I accept your perception of our collective homophobic baggage, the “black community” doesn’t get it’s cues from any one person any more than the white community does. More importantly, those watching saw him apologize, and get punished for using that language. > [@Sampiro](#): > > How do you think Kobe would react if a white player called the ref a “Fucking nigger” do you suppose, and then claimed “It’s not how I feel about black people, who I think are absolutely wonderful, it’s just something I heard once while listening to a party album at my good friend Spike Lee’s house”? My guess is he’d want him crucified. Even if he’d called a black ref “boy” or something far less incendiary, it would be all over the damned news until Charlie Sheen exposes himself to a nun or whatever. First, nigger, like most racial slurs, is almost exclusively used towards a specific maligned racial group. Unfortunately, the word faggot is used commonly enough that it is often used towards people who are not gay. Obviously, the word shouldn’t be used at all, but it’s not a homophobic slur in the way nigger or spic is as a racial slur. It’s also funny you mentioned Charlie Sheen, who has repeatedly called his ex-wife a nigger to little uproar. I think it’s largely because his ex is white, and because he is a crazy person. So your presumption is demonstrably false. The use of a racial slur out of context clearly doesn’t sink all boats. However, the reality is that the vast, vast majority of people use the word nigger exclusively for black people, which has gives it an overt racial connotation that faggot doesn’t have anymore for gay people. > [@Sampiro](#): > > ‘Faggot’ is the gay ‘nigger’. Ask a gay black guy sometime if he’s been called both and if so is either word any less insulting than the other. No, it’s not. I have asked a gay black guy that, and he said they weren’t really comparable. Furthermore, I, as a straight black guy have been called both, and can tell you one was intended to be far more personal and hateful than the other. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I think Kobe knew what he was saying and while he wasn’t calling the ref gay probably it’s no different than if he’d called him a dirty kike and then said “Oh, I love Jews!”. Do people often call non-Jews, kike? Not usually, and that’s why your analogy fails. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/27 "2011-04-14T13:41:30Z")
Here is one openly gay former NBA player’s take on the issue: [Former closeted ex-NBA player Amaechi reacts to Bryant’s gay slur](http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=azcentral&sParam=46097578.story) One snippet: > [@](#): > > Q: Does this discourage an NBA player who might ponder coming out to his team from doing so? > > A: Let’s face it, any gay teammate he has, any gay player playing on a team that he plays against is now, as they were before probably, critically aware that the ultimate insult that someone uses to put someone down is talking about you. That does want to make you take a step back and think again about whether you want to really open yourself up to that extra animosity. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/28 "2011-04-14T13:46:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think it’s taken out of his salary, so he doesn’t get the income in the first place. But I’m not positive about that. We had a thread here a while back where I noted that the fund that NBA fines go to is not a 501(c)(3), so it’s not a charitable donation. I believe that Kobe’s accountants will have the fine taken out of a future check so it doesn’t count as income, as you suggested. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/29 "2011-04-14T13:48:24Z")
At the very least he could have bought the ref a nice ring. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/30 "2011-04-14T14:17:13Z")
Aren’t most of the large fines reduced later? I seem to recall reading that somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/31 "2011-04-14T14:53:11Z")
Naturally, the comments section of that article is filled with the usual trash (“Waa waa waa people call me a closed-minded bigot just because I think everyone who isn’t exactly like me should be shot”). But what _really_ gets me is how every damn time something like this comes up, out come the “don’t we have free speech??” and “what about the 1st Amendment??” comments. Gaaaa! Look, I understand that you have to have been whapped about with the idiot stick for a bit to proudly declare your ignorance like that, but cripes, you’re at least literate, aren’t you? Would it kill you to actually take a second to read the damn Amendment? It’s one sentence long – the portion relevant to your stupidity is 11 words. Hell, if you need me to, I’ll be happy to read it to you. Congress has make no law abridging Kobe’s freedom to call a ref a “fucking faggot”, and David Stern isn’t Congress. Now kindly fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/32 "2011-04-14T15:32:07Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > We had a thread here a while back where I noted that the fund that NBA fines go to is not a 501(c)(3), so it’s not a charitable donation. I believe that Kobe’s accountants will have the fine taken out of a future check so it doesn’t count as income, as you suggested. Where do you contend the NBA fines go? According to this [site](http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0406/1168454.html), they go to a variety of unnamed charities that are presumably non-profits. > [@](#): > > **NBA officials do not publicize the identities of charitable organizations that receive money collected from league fines and lost salary** (players are charged 1/90th of their salary for each missed game). That total – plucked from the pocketbooks of players, coaches, owners and even game officials – has now surpassed $8 million, prior to appeal. > > The NBA and National Basketball Players Association (NBPA), per the league’s collective bargaining agreement, equally split fines paid by players, then donate the respective shares to the charities of their choice. Only the NBPA has to approve of the NBA charities, and not vice-versa, according to Dan Wasserman, spokesman for the players’ association. > > But Wasserman told [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) that he’s “not so sure that (the player’s association) has been served with any formal notice over the last couple years” and that “it might be something that we ask them for this time around after the season.” > > Stu Jackson, the NBA’s vice president of operations, declined to answer questions concerning the league’s procedures on distributing player fines. NBA spokesman Seth Sylvan maintains the league does give the money to charity, but he would not specify which charities benefit from the league’s donations. > > Wasserman said the player’s association donates its share to various youth foundations. > > \*\*Unlike the NBA, the other three major professional leagues announce where the money collected from player fines go. > \*\* Also, as far as I can tell, the fines other leagues impose can be deducted from taxes according to many experts([Cite](http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/10/22/are-nfl-fines-tax-deductible/), [Another](http://www.cnbc.com/id/36569901), [Another](http://motherjones.com/mojo/2007/09/nfl-fines-tax-deductible)) Do you have a cite for your claim? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/33 "2011-04-14T15:49:55Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > At the very least he could have bought the ref a nice ring. I saw what you did there ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/34 "2011-04-14T16:42:04Z")
If someone has it in them to say ‘faggot’ or ‘nigger’ as an insult to anybody, that tells you that the person saying those things is an asshole. No apology is possible, unless it takes the form of ‘I apologize to the world at large for being such an asshole as to use those words to describe anybody.’ It is his own actions and his own words that condemn Kobe Bryant to being characterized as an asshole, and until he apologizes properly for the fact that nothing but shit comes out of him, an asshole he will remain. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/35 "2011-04-14T17:09:19Z")
Given the spate of bullying and suicides surrounding the troubles facing gay teens and gays in general, I simply cannot stand the use of the word and the idea that it is used often without meaning gay is in fact irrelevant. It is a nasty ugly word when used to disparage someone that simply cannot be divorced from its homophoic undertones. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/36 "2011-04-14T17:22:10Z")
I have a question for those who agree with Sampiro (and/or ARE Sampiro)… I say, as an insult, to many, both men and women, jokingly. “Suck a dick.” I say this when I have been overcome some way. I would never say ‘faggot’, in the same manner I would never say ‘nigger’- both are outmoded and any use will be seen as offensive and/or archaic, unless I am one of the groups who choose to use it on themselves… Is that offensive? If I say suck a dick to someone who would never, or to someone who does, does it matter? I am not trying to create a strawman- it is definitely a diff issue, but would it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/37 "2011-04-14T17:49:13Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Where do you contend the NBA fines go? According to this [site](http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0406/1168454.html), they go to a variety of unnamed charities that are presumably non-profits. That’s true, but the fund itself is not a non-profit. If the fund was a 501(c)(3), it would have to declare an IRS Form 990, which would state which charities receive the money. But it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Also, as far as I can tell, the fines other leagues impose can be deducted from taxes according to many experts([Cite](http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2010/10/22/are-nfl-fines-tax-deductible/), [Another](http://www.cnbc.com/id/36569901), [Another](http://motherjones.com/mojo/2007/09/nfl-fines-tax-deductible)) Do you have a cite for your claim? Those fines can be deducted from players’ tax income, but they’re not charitable deductions; rather, they’re considered “ordinary expenses” according to your cites. So on your Schedule A (yeah, I just did my taxes), it’s under Line 21, employee expenses, rather than Lines 16-18, charitable deductions. A fine point, I agree, but an important one. And as I alluded to, one way or another Kobe won’t be paying taxes on that $100K. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/38 "2011-04-14T17:54:09Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > And as I alluded to, one way or another Kobe won’t be paying taxes on that $100K. Fair point, thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/39 "2011-04-14T20:11:02Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > Is that offensive? If I say suck a dick to someone who would never, or to someone who does, does it matter? Things said to friends or people who know you really well don’t really count. If a gay or straight friend tells me “you’re fagging out Jon” if I start oohing over Ikea or singing an unsolicited showtune or whatever I take no offense at all. I make horribly politically incorrect jokes with friends of all ethnicities and orientations and the like and they with me and I really don’t think anybody’s feelings are hurt. Now if the teller at my bank or my boss said “Don’t fag out”, then I’d probably go into full “Off with the clip ons and off with the slip ons, bring it bitch!” mode, but I can’t see that happening. One exception: on Facebook there are some fratboy types who seem to think calling each other fag or gay or making gay accusations is the height of comedy. It’s really irritating to gay friends who read it. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280/40 "2011-04-14T20:45:48Z")
Thank you! I don’t usually ‘count’ friends either, but I guess I wouldn’t say ‘suck a dick’ to a non-friend or someone in the same situation… Thanks for the fast response! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kobe-bryant-f-g-fa/578280.md?page=3)