# Koch Brothers to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Elections **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 27, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967 "2015-01-27T00:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/281 "2015-02-11T21:25:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Invalid comparison. Substitute Limbaugh or National Review or Fox News for Maddow in the above statement and it would be a lot more valid, and lose the punch that you wanted it to have (and prove my point). Ms. Maddow, for whom I have a considerable fondness, is in possession of a swan’s neck, a girlish giggle, and a mind like a steel trap. What she does not have is a billion dollars. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/282 "2015-02-11T21:36:52Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Again, but it’s KNOWN self-interest. People who view the segment or see the policy know who was behind it and can account for that information. It’s a free market principle that more information leads to better decisions right? Why would you resist having more information available? > > First of all, cite for Maddow lying during a piece on Christie? Second, Maddow (being an experienced journalist/commentator) would do so with the full expectation that she would be called out on the lies, have her reputation trashed, and be pilloried by her peers. Again and again and again, her name is attached to it. When the “America is Super-Duper Awesome” PAC puts out an ad, who paid for it? Who benefits from it? If it contains lies, who do we blame? We can sometimes find out, but not always. Maddow continually grasped at straws in order to tie Christie to Bridgegate. Her agenda was to lie about Christie. The end result is that three investigations have now failed to find that Christie was involved, in any way. None of Maddow’s claims trashing Christie proved to be based on fact or truth. Maddow made many false Bridgegate claims. Claims that Christie wanted to punish Ft Lee, NJ, false claims that Christie wanted to punsish Mayor Moron of Ft Lee for not supporting Christie’s re-election, false claims of punishing Democrats over Christie’s refusal to reappoint a NJ Supreme Court Justice, false claims that Christie withheld hurricane Sandy funds, false claims that Christie was punishing Weinberg, the Democrat leader of the NJ Senate, false claims that a multi-million dollar development project in Fort Lee was being threatened, blah, blah, blah. None of them have proven to be true. [http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/an-alternate-theory-of-the-bridgegate-scandal-111611971764](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/an-alternate-theory-of-the-bridgegate-scandal-111611971764) It appears that Maddow let her emotional involvment (hatred of Christie?) cloud her judgement and she desperately grasped for any lie that she could use to keep the false Christie/Bridgegate story in front of her viewers. _“I am totally obsessed with the Christie story, unapologetically,” Maddow responded_. [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/22/bill-maher-gets-on-rachel-maddows-case-over-scandal-shes-totally-obsessed-with/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/22/bill-maher-gets-on-rachel-maddows-case-over-scandal-shes-totally-obsessed-with/) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/283 "2015-02-11T21:51:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ms. Maddow, for whom I have a considerable fondness, is in possession of a swan’s neck, a girlish giggle, and a mind like a steel trap. What she does not have is a billion dollars. Her corporate masters at Comcast do have a billion dollars. Plus. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/284 "2015-02-11T23:43:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Her corporate masters at Comcast do have a billion dollars. Plus. Are her “corporate masters” intent on electing progressives? Are they willing to spend like Kochs to do so? All things considered, with or without the billion of Maddow’s alleged corporate masters, how would you estimate the relative effects of Maddow and Koch on American politics? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/285 "2015-02-12T01:59:44Z")
Maddow gets an hour a day. The Kochs get 30 seconds. No contest. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/286 "2015-02-12T02:07:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are her “corporate masters” intent on electing progressives? Are they willing to spend like Kochs to do so? Yes, they are. [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375116/how-comcast-bought-democratic-party-matthew-continetti](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375116/how-comcast-bought-democratic-party-matthew-continetti) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/287 "2015-02-12T02:53:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Maddow gets an hour a day. The Kochs get 30 seconds. No contest. Maddow doesn’t reach swing voters, she’s reaching liberals who were going to vote that way anyway. She isn’t swaying anything. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/288 "2015-02-12T02:55:41Z")
Then we’re back to my suggestion that we can solve this problem by only allowing ads during political shows, when people already are demonstrating an eagerness for political content. Let’s have those uninterested never see an ad at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/289 "2015-02-12T16:53:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Maddow gets an hour a day. The Kochs get 30 seconds. No contest. Huh? I’ll ask for a cite here. Maddow’s hour goes to X number of households. The Kochs run Y number of commercials per day (or per weekday, to compare it properly) that reach Z number of households. X \* 1 hour = Maddow’s “influence” just in terms of eyeball time. 30 seconds \* Y \* Z = Koch’s “influence”. If you think Maddow’s influence is greater than the Kochs’ (using these numbers), then let’s see a cite with some values. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/290 "2015-02-13T15:54:53Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Say it with me: > > Progressive. Consumption. Tax. > > People scoff, and okay, it ain’t no panacea, but you could tax the living bajesus out of this kind of wasteful spending. I think there’d be a pretty serious opposition, on the basis that “speech is not consumption” (though obviously buying ad time is). But yeah, this is one thing a progressive consumption tax could deal with really well. Me, I’d go for Confiscation. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/291 "2015-02-13T17:29:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As I pointed out a few years back, this has become the last big gravy train for the old media and it is becoming also the one for the new one. > > The biggest beneficiaries of _Citizens United_ are the ones that will concentrate on making this a horse race (it is very important that both sides are seen as having a good chance to win) so as to get a good chunk of all that money. > > The media that will take most of that money can be counted also on the ongoing efforts efforts to sanitize what the Koch companies and the politicians in their pockets are doing. I agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/292 "2015-02-14T16:43:57Z")
Take a moment, if you will, to reflect on their libertarian agenda, how eager they are to free us from oppressive government regulations. Like the EPA. Primarily, the EPA. The EPA is to the Koch Brothers like Van Helsing is to Dracula, an oppressive entity determined to restrict their enjoyment of their private property. But hey! They support ballet! Swell. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/293 "2015-02-20T08:33:13Z")
Here’s the thing about the Kochs. They don’t actually spend their money just to get favorable treatment from the government. They spend their money to push an ideology. I’m not sure you can write a constitutional amendment such that it would allow Congress to limit their spending on that. One of the Kochs’ issues is criminal justice reform: > **[Unlikely Cause Unites the Left and the Right: Justice Reform (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/19/us/politics/unlikely-cause-unites-the-left-and-the-right-justice-reform.html?_r=0)** > > Groups like Koch Industries and the Center for American Progress, usually bitter adversaries, are banding together to reduce prison populations and overhaul sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/294 "2015-02-20T17:15:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …They don’t actually spend their money just to get favorable treatment from the government… Oh, goody! So their concerns are not limited to using our nations lakes, rivers and air as their personal industrial toilet? How very reassuring! I hear they are also generous supporters of The Arts, especially the arts attended by people who own their own tuxedos and are not required to rent them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/295 "2015-02-21T04:12:47Z")
Well, others here tried to draw a distinction between Rachel Maddow and the Kochs. Maddow is pushing an ideology, whereas supposedly the kochs were just trying to get favors for Koch industries. When in fact, both are in the same business of pushing an ideology that goes beyond their self interest. Others have complained about secret money or the Kochs not having to stand by their messaging. I think the Kochs have proven that they’d be happy to comply with both requirements if that was the law. Yet that still isn’t good enough. So I have to ask again. Why does Rachel Maddow have special rights? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/296 "2015-02-21T12:09:47Z")
Rachel Maddow is probably the best journalist on television. What she presents is meticulously researched, she freely admits errors when they are made, and she invites guests with opposing viewpoints on the air to state their case and she treats them with courtesy and respect. She’s everything that Fox “News” is not. It is possible to present the news with a liberal viewpoint without being unfair. She does that. It may be theoretically possible to do the same from the right, but thus far there are no examples of this. But she doesn’t campaign for individuals or causes and she does not have a monetary stake in how effective her message may be. The Kochs simply want to buy elections so they can amass more wealth for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/297 "2015-02-21T12:49:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Rachel Maddow is probably the best journalist on television. What she presents is meticulously researched, she freely admits errors when they are made, and she invites guests with opposing viewpoints on the air to state their case and she treats them with courtesy and respect. She’s everything that Fox “News” is not. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/298 "2015-02-21T13:06:56Z")
Unfortunately Bob, you can’t make government the arbiter of who is a good messenger and who is a bad one. If you’re going to make distinctions between speakers, they have to be objective. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/299 "2015-02-21T16:34:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Unfortunately Bob, you can’t make government the arbiter of who is a good messenger and who is a bad one. If you’re going to make distinctions between speakers, they have to be objective. There is a distinction between being a news commentator with a professional journalist staff keeping you from telling lies on one cable network and carpet bombing ALL the news media with political advertising that is often false and misleading. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/300 "2015-02-21T18:46:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!.. Another brilliant and insightful argument! And so carefully crafted! \*Five \*exclamation points, precisely the number. Four would have been too lax, too casual, six might have been a bit much, but five! Just so! (Seven, of course, would have been _right out_!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967.md?page=16)