# Koch Brothers to Spend $900 Million on 2016 Elections **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 27, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967 "2015-01-27T00:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/341 "2015-02-23T19:49:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …As was shown already with cites and examples the Kochs are not doing much of a political thing, they are doing this in big part for their own bottom line and to do so they will continue to deceive the American people. (post shortened) And MSNBC is never concerned about it’s bottom line when it panders to it’s fans with falsehoods? And unions support all candidates instead of just the ones who support the union’s positions? It’s nice that you wish to prevent U.S. voters from being deceived by someone else but I believe the best way to do that is to allow all groups to publically state their positions and let the people decide who is full of shit, or just mostly full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/342 "2015-02-23T19:53:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What is the difference, in principle, between “political advertisement” and a book? Or between “political advertisement” and a poster on the wall? Mass coverage. Write a book, someone has to make the effort to buy it. Put up a poster, somebody has to walk buy it. You’re not reaching hundreds of millions of people. You can lie your ass off and you won’t have much impact. Buy media ads to smear your opponent, you can buy an election quite easily. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/343 "2015-02-23T19:55:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Mass coverage. Write a book, someone has to make the effort to buy it. Not if you’re giving it away free. > [@](#): > > Put up a poster, somebody has to walk buy it. Not if you put up the posters _everywhere_. So - again, what is the difference in principle? Not in quantity, in principle? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/344 "2015-02-23T20:03:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Since political power can be inherited, doesn’t this mean we should ban close family members of politicians from running for office? You know a “gotcha” is not when you lunge and grab a handful of air, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/345 "2015-02-23T20:09:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not if you’re giving it away free. > Not if you put up the posters _everywhere_. > > So - again, what is the difference in principle? Not in quantity, in principle? With political advertisement, you’re using a public resource, the broadcast frequencies, to intrude into peoples’ homes. With books and posters, they have to come to you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/346 "2015-02-23T20:11:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > With political advertisement, you’re using a public resource, the broadcast frequencies, to intrude into peoples’ homes. With books and posters, they have to come to you. So cable political advertising would be ok then? And by your logic, am I correct that you do not consider ads in newspapers/magazines to be the kind of proscribed “political advertising”? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/347 "2015-02-23T20:20:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So cable political advertising would be ok then? And by your logic, am I correct that you do not consider ads in newspapers/magazines to be the kind of proscribed “political advertising”? I would prohibit cable ads as well. Too often, there is a monopoly granted to cable providers thus the citizen has little choice but to be subjected to your ad. With magazines and newspapers, you have to buy the paper and there are alternatives available to you. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/348 "2015-02-23T20:23:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I would prohibit cable ads as well. Too often, there is a monopoly granted to cable providers thus the citizen has little choice but to be subjected to your ad. With magazines and newspapers, you have to buy the paper and there are alternatives available to you. Who is forcing people to watch television? And with DVRs and such, one needn’t watch commercials, either. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/349 "2015-02-23T20:24:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I would prohibit cable ads as well. Too often, there is a monopoly granted to cable providers thus the citizen has little choice but to be subjected to your ad. Really? Last I checked, my cable carried hundreds of channels. That’s a bit more than “little choice” wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/350 "2015-02-23T20:32:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Really? Last I checked, my cable carried hundreds of channels. That’s a bit more than “little choice” wouldn’t you say? You often have little choice in provider. If only one company was allowed to sell magazines in your town, they could filter the ads you see and screen out magazines that sell unfriendly ads. Your cable company decides what channels you get and by inference whose ads you might see. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/351 "2015-02-23T20:32:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > And MSNBC is never concerned about it’s bottom line when it panders to it’s fans with falsehoods? > > And unions support all candidates instead of just the ones who support the union’s positions? > > It’s nice that you wish to prevent U.S. voters from being deceived by someone else but I believe the best way to do that is to allow all groups to publically state their positions and let the people decide who is full of shit, or just mostly full of shit. As you have not been able to furnish examples (And we know already, your examples are usually underwhelming) there is not much to support what you claim, by contrast there is a thread already showing with hundreds of examples how full of it FOX and others are. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/352 "2015-02-23T20:41:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You often have little choice in provider. If only one company was allowed to sell magazines in your town, they could filter the ads you see and screen out magazines that sell unfriendly ads. Your cable company decides what channels you get and by inference whose ads you might see. Every cable company carries all the popular channels. The differences between channels on one cable company vs another is on the fringes, with channels only watched by few people. So - no. Care to try again? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/353 "2015-02-23T21:59:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I never suggested that government should be the arbiter of who can speak and who can’t. Nobody suggests such a thing. You can speak all you want to. Your right to speech is not dependent on the Kochs’ being ablt to buy elections. > > Having a limit on what a person can contribute to political organizations and political advertisements is not an infringement on speech. If the Koch boys want to stand on a soapbox and shout their invective all day long in a public square, let them have at it. If they want to buy elections by carpetbombing political ads, that’s a step too far. And no, I don’t want different rules for George Soros. And yes, political parties would be limited in their spending as well. It’s not an infringement on speech if it applies to everyone equally. Any limits that apply to the Kochs also most apply to political parties. Unless you’re proposing equal spending between the Democrats and Koch Industries, then you are giving parties more rights to speak than the Kochs. If the Kochs are say, limited to $1 million, that’s how much the Democrats are limited to. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/354 "2015-02-23T23:26:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As you have not been able to furnish examples (And we know already, your examples are usually underwhelming) there is not much to support what you claim, by contrast there is a thread already showing with hundreds of examples how full of it FOX and others are. Soros spends money to influence political campaigns. Soros spends money to fund the creation of groups that try to influence political campaigns. MSNBC spends it expensive airtime allowing it’s news and entertainment talkingheads to repeatedly attack conservatives and Republicans while it champions Democrats and progressives, in order to influence elections. The dailykos spends it’s money and time babbling something positive about Democrats while it froths incoherently about Republicans. There are many other ways to get a political message to the people. You only want to shut down the ones who do not agree with your pet project. News flash - Ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/355 "2015-02-23T23:28:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Some of you are. Some of you are trying (and failing) to stop others from discussing the issue. > > The only campaign advertising that my tax dollars are funding is the endless stream of progressive, liberal, anti-conservative, and pro-Democrat programs on PBS. I think they should stop using my money to fund what is obviously a form of campaign advertising. In the last month or so I saw the PBS NewsHour do a puff piece on the Koch Brothers, who after all, fund them. Apparently we should love and trust them because they are so influential and their fingers are in so many pies. This was Gwen Ifill. On the PBS NewsHour.\* I am not making this up.\* ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/356 "2015-02-23T23:35:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If people intend to prevent a Koch bros organization from expressing its political free speech, then they should also want to prevent “public”, taxpayer-funded television from using taxpayer dollars to campaign for/advocate for/promote one political party over the others. And the Soros funded organizations should face the same exclusion. Not at all. If we don’t want the news, and the informing of the masses about major issues, to be slanted by certain private interests who exploit and maintain an unlevel playing field, then we need more public funding–accountable both to democratic processes and to scientific criticism–not less. Of course, in reality, _PBS is funded by and answers to the Koch bros. Really._ > [@](#): > > However, people being people, they will find a way to get their political free speech message to the voters. > > _“The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”_ > -Princess Leia Then the Kochs don’t _need_ PBS, and the American people can put it back under state funding and public governance. So why isn’t that happening? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/357 "2015-02-23T23:44:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And certainly not less where the government is the arbiter of who can speak and who can’t speak. > > The problem you guys keep on running into is that you can’t control “who”, you can only control “how”. No one is special. If the Kochs can’t spend $900 million on TV ads, then the Democratic Party can’t spend $900 million on TV ads. For people who cry all the time about fairness, you’d think they’d be okay with the idea that the Kochs are equal to the Democratic Party and have exactly the same rights. So a political party made up of 20% of American households and another 15%-25% that are hangers-on should be grateful to be equal in influence to a half-dozen persons descended from a successful mineral-rights speculator of sixty years ago? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/358 "2015-02-23T23:53:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Soros spends money to influence political campaigns. Soros spends money to fund the creation of groups that try to influence political campaigns. MSNBC spends it expensive airtime allowing it’s news and entertainment talkingheads to repeatedly attack conservatives and Republicans while it champions Democrats and progressives, in order to influence elections. The dailykos spends it’s money and time babbling something positive about Democrats while it froths incoherently about Republicans. > > There are many other ways to get a political message to the people. You only want to shut down the ones who do not agree with your pet project. News flash - Ain’t gonna happen. Real news flash: you are only pulling a straw man, I already said that me and many others will support more restrictions and that they will apply to all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/359 "2015-02-24T00:24:32Z")
No they won’t. The politicians will never allow THEIR speech to be limited. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967/360 "2015-02-24T00:53:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No they won’t. The politicians will never allow THEIR speech to be limited. Irrelevant, I was referring to his accusation that the law before did not cover also democrats. Or that I would only support restricting Republicans, what the poster told about me remains a strawman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koch-brothers-to-spend-900-million-on-2016-elections/710967.md?page=19)