# Kosher cheese **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522 "2003-01-09T15:08:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/1 "2003-01-09T15:08:23Z")
So, one of my New Years resolutions is to be a better vegetarian. Another is to be a better Jew. One place these two resolutions intersect is cheese. I don’t eat things with big hunks of meat in them, but because I’m a lame-ass, I do eat regular cheese. So yesterday, I went to the health food store with the intention of purchasing some kosher, or at least vegetarian, cheese. In the store, my eye immediately lit upon a block of cheese with a big K on it. But when I looked at the ingredients, I was surprised to see rennet listed. Correct me if I am wrong, but rennet is animal cultures. How can cheese with animal cultures be kosher? Should I complain to the dairy for false advertisement of kashrut? Or is there such a thing as kosher rennet? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/2 "2003-01-09T15:21:42Z")
I am not an expert in cheese manufacturing, but rennet is an essential component of cheese, no? You can’t have cheese without rennet. As to why rennet isn’t considered milk, I’m not certain (again, cheese is not my strong suit). I suppose I can do some research and get back to you, however. In any event, having eaten cheese many times, I can tell you that there is kosher cheese. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/3 "2003-01-09T15:23:21Z")
There is such a thing as vegetarian rennet (some of them are digestive enzymes extracted from bacteria or insectivorous plants) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/4 "2003-01-09T15:30:25Z")
> [@](#): > > As to why rennet isn’t considered milk, I’m not certain (again, cheese is not my strong suit). I suppose I can do some research and get back to you, however. > > In any event, having eaten cheese many times, I can tell you that there is kosher cheese. I think rennet is made with enzymes from the animal itself, not the milk, so it’s considered meat. I know there is kosher cheese, but I didn’t think it could include rennet. I see from **Mangetout** that there is vegetarian rennet, but the cheese I saw didn’t say that explicitly, so I was confused. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/5 "2003-01-09T15:31:47Z")
[Rennet](http://www.leeners.com/cheesehow2.html#rennet) > [@](#): > > Rennet is an enzyme which acts on protein and causes it to coagulate. There are two sources of rennet enzyme. Animal rennet is an enzyme which is extracted from the fourth stomach of calves and vegetable based rennet. Vegetable based rennet contains no animal products and has the same coagulating ability as animal rennet when used in milk that has been ripened (acidified) by a cheese starter bacteria. This rennet is available in tablet and liquid form. Rennet must be diluted with distilled water prior to adding to milk. Rennet must be refrigerated. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/6 "2003-01-09T15:41:15Z")
There is no such thing as “vegetarian rennet”; rennet is specifically an animal product. There are vegetable enzymes that can substitute for rennet, and these are noted on the label of vegan cheeses as “vegetable enzymes,” although they are more likely to come from fungi or bacteria. Kosher cheeses are made with ordinary rennet, from properly selected and slaughtered animals. From [Kosherquest.com](http://www.kosherquest.org/bookhtml/CHEESE.htm): > [@](#): > > If the source of rennet is a kosher species of animal, ritually slaughtered under rabbinical supervision, it may be used to turn milk into cheese. For rather involved halachic reasons, there is no problem of meat and milk mixing in such usage. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/7 "2003-01-09T15:45:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Kosher cheeses are made with ordinary rennet, from properly selected and slaughtered animals. Okay then! I figured kosher cheese would be good enough, but I realize that what I really want is vegetarian cheese. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/8 "2003-01-09T15:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*In the store, my eye immediately lit upon a block of cheese with a big K on it. But when I looked at the ingredients, I was surprised to see rennet listed. \*\* I woould be very careful about eating cheese (or anything, for that matter) that indicates that it’s kosher with a **K**. A **K** can’t be copyrighted, so pretty any company can use the letter and claim that the product is kosher. The careful consumer always looks for the symbol of a reliable kashrus organization on the label. Or, you may have to do some investigating to find out who issues the **K**. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/9 "2003-01-09T16:49:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > There is no such thing as “vegetarian rennet”; rennet is specifically an animal product. There are vegetable enzymes that can substitute for rennet, and these are noted on the label of vegan cheeses as “vegetable enzymes,” although they are more likely to come from fungi or bacteria. My copy of Webster’s Ninth: Rennet 1 [the calf stomach stuff] 2 a: rennin b: a substitute for rennin Rennin is the specific enzyme important for cheese making. _Vegan_ cheese? To be fair, in Webster’s (again) the second definition of “cheese” is: “something resembling cheese in shape or consistency.” But a lot of people wouldn’t really consider something which did not contain milk to be “cheese.” ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/10 "2003-01-09T16:53:07Z")
You made a good point Vorp. I wonder if a company could be sued for fraud though, if a K iss prominently displayed on packaging that isn’t kosher, on the grounds that the letter _implies_ that it is. You know, like making a crappy camera and calling it a Nikkon. It isn’t Nikon, but it could fool somebody who wasn’t paying attention. Similarly, somebody might see the K and take it to mean Kosher. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/11 "2003-01-09T17:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*You made a good point Vorp. I wonder if a company could be sued for fraud though, if a K iss prominently displayed on packaging that isn’t kosher, on the grounds that the letter _implies_ that it is. You know, like making a crappy camera and calling it a Nikkon. It isn’t Nikon, but it could fool somebody who wasn’t paying attention. Similarly, somebody might see the K and take it to mean Kosher. \*\* Nikon, however, is a brand name, and only Nikon can sue for the misuse of the name. No one owns the name “kosher.” Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/12 "2003-01-09T17:09:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\*From [Kosherquest.com](http://www.kosherquest.org/bookhtml/CHEESE.htm): > > > [@](#): > > > > If the source of rennet is a kosher species of animal, ritually slaughtered under rabbinical supervision, it may be used to turn milk into cheese. For rather involved halachic reasons, there is no problem of meat and milk mixing in such usage. > > \*\* Can anyone point me to a site that explains this “rather involved” halachic reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/13 "2003-01-09T17:34:10Z")
Zev, this is the best I can find. They really don’t like to talk about this!! [http://learn.jtsa.edu/topics/diduknow/jrpguide/21\_part2.shtml](http://learn.jtsa.edu/topics/diduknow/jrpguide/21_part2.shtml) Apparently, rennet is dried and chemically treated so that it’s no longer food, so it’s not mixing meat and dairy. It nonetheless must come from kosher calves, no less than 8 days old, and the cheesemaking must be supervised by a Jew, etc. Rennet cheese used to be forbidden entirely, so the above reasoning is relatively recent. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/14 "2003-01-09T17:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chukhung \* > Can anyone point me to a site that explains this “rather involved” halachic reasoning? Probably not. Generally, “rather involved” halachic reasoning does not tend to be posted on the internet. Which is all for the better, because the only the tiniest minority of internet users would be able to relate to it anyway. But, if your soul burns with desire to see the source for the halachic reasoning, I would suggest that you pull out your well-worn copy of _Igros Moshe_, and see Volume 2 of _Yorah Deah, Siman_ 48. Enjoy. ;j (BTW, **nametag** , your link appears to link to a Conservative source. Just want to be clear about that). ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/15 "2003-01-09T18:49:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > **Probably not. Generally, “rather involved” halachic reasoning does not tend to be posted on the internet. Which is all for the better, because the only the tiniest minority of internet users would be able to relate to it anyway.** Oh well, I’m sure it would whoosh right over this goy’s head, anyway. If it’s possible for rennet to be added to milk to produce kosher cheese, I had wondered if a similar line of reasoning might be applied to gelatin. Can there be any surer way to riches than producing the world’s first kosher rocky road ice cream? ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/16 "2003-01-09T18:57:44Z")
[Here](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrennet.html)’s a Straight Dope Staff Report on rennet, which says Trader Joe’s has cheese made with either animal, vegetable, or microbial rennet. Also, for good measure, [another staff report](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcheese.html) on the origin of cheese. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/17 "2003-01-09T19:18:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chukhung \* > I had wondered if a similar line of reasoning might be applied to gelatin. Depends on what the line of reasoning applied is. Gelatin is pretty controversial in it’s own right, for some of the same, but some other reasons as well. > [@](#): > > Can there be any surer way to riches than producing the world’s first kosher rocky road ice cream? [Apparently not](http://www.koshertoday.com/kosher%20today%20archives/1998/0298/Kolatin%20Will%20the%20Real%20Kosher%20Gelatin%20Please%20Stand%20Up.htm) ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/18 "2003-01-09T19:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Nikon, however, is a brand name, and only Nikon can sue for the misuse of the name. No one owns the name “kosher.” > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* I understand that Zev, what I meant was, if somebody intends to buy Kosher and a product is marked in such a way as to suggest that it has been certified Kosher when it hasn’t, isn’t that grounds for a fraud charge? The Nikon example probably wasn’t the best. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/19 "2003-01-10T00:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > No one owns the name “kosher.” … except my cousin, Fred Kosher, of course. BTW, one of the few disagreements between Orthodox and Conservative definitions of kosher has to do with rennet, with Conservatives allowing something-or-other than Orthodox don’t. Meaning that if you’re looking for kosher cheese, you want to look carefully at the hexshure. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522/20 "2003-01-10T03:15:37Z")
Well, suggesting that something that isn’t approved is in accordance with Law isn’t kosher. I’m sure any judge would agree. 😃 I’ll be here all night. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kosher-cheese/147522.md?page=2)