# Koyaanisqatsi: A pretentious, overrated "movie." **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208 "2005-09-18T11:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/41 "2006-05-05T01:22:47Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I haven’t seen it. However, I have seen [Baraka](http://www.spiritofbaraka.com/), which I find quite pleasing, sort of like a visual CD. I love **Baraka**. Of course, see post #3 by **Beware of Doug**. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/42 "2006-05-05T01:46:16Z")
How in the FUCK did this thread come back? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/43 "2006-05-05T01:55:01Z")
I just watched the movie, and was too overcome by ennui to start a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/44 "2006-05-05T02:56:57Z")
Nice language, **Argent Towers**. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/45 "2006-05-05T03:08:57Z")
> [@TJdude825](#): > > If you didn’t get it, you just have to watch the 2nd and 3rd movies. They will answer all your questions from the first one. Yes, I’m kidding. > > Seriously, I agree with the OP entirely. To quote some other Doper in a thread from many months ago, > > Knock knock! > > Who’s there? > > Knock knock! > > Who’s there? > > Knock knock! > > Who’s there? > > Knock knock! > > Who’s there? > > Knock knock! > > Who’s there? > > Philip Glass Could someone explain this joke to me? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/46 "2006-05-05T03:32:53Z")
The music of Philip Glass often repeats the same music phrase over and over again, before making a slight change, then repeating that phrase over and over again, etc. To some like me it’s hypnotically beautiful, but to others it’s just annoying. Listen to “[Resource](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000AEDU/qid=1146799656/)” from his score for _Koyaanisquatsi_. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/47 "2006-05-05T05:38:19Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > The music of Philip Glass often repeats the same music phrase over and over again, before making a slight change, then repeating that phrase over and over again, etc. To some like me it’s hypnotically beautiful, but to others it’s just annoying. Wow, that sounds a lot like Ministry … but quieter. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/48 "2006-05-05T05:45:15Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Wow, that sounds a lot like Ministry … but quieter. I love Ministry. I usually like P. Glass. But Ministry has emotion & energy. This P. Glass soundtrack in like going to the dentist, getting anesthetized, and then the dentist just walks out of the room. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/49 "2006-05-05T09:52:48Z")
_Koyaanisqatsi_ has a very special place in my heart, as this was the first movie I saw while tripping on acid. It made the movie much more poignant. I was completely blown away by the part where the music slows down and you get all these close-up shots of people looking into the camera. I have never felt such “welt-schmerz” as during that scene. I didn’t like \*Powaqqatsi \* very much as the music was too up-beat. \*Naqoyqatsi \* looks really bad for the most part because of the inverted color-crap, but there are some beautiful, hypnotic scenes in it. The music of \*Naqoyqatsi \* is one of the best Glass scores, I feel, which I largely contribute to Yoyo Ma’s beautiful, haunting Cello sound. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/50 "2006-05-05T10:10:00Z")
Koyaanisqatsi is a welcome relief after a semester of Stan Brakhage and his wife’s genitals. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/51 "2006-05-05T11:26:20Z")
I’ve heard that Philip Glass thinks that knock-knock joke is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/52 "2006-05-05T17:00:18Z")
Since this thread has reappeared, I get a chance to hate “Koyaanisgatsi” too. It is the most technophobist piece of rubbish I’ve seen. Imagine if a film contrasted America with Asia in such a one sided way this film contrasted the manmade with the natural. It would be completely offensive. Had time lapse photography only just been invented when it came out? That would seem to be the only reason for producing such a work. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/53 "2006-05-05T17:25:15Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Had time lapse photography only just been invented when it came out? [_Demolishing and Building Up the Star Theatre_](http://www.americaslibrary.gov/sh/disaster/sh_disaster_manmade_1.html) (1902). ---
**Author:** ![Godfrey\_Daniels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Godfrey\_Daniels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godfrey_Daniels)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/54 "2006-05-05T17:28:40Z")
Saw it, hated it, found it to be the very definition of “pretentious crap”. But this put me on the flloor! 😃 > [@George Kaplin](#): > > Well, _I_ liked it! > [sub]then again, I also like dental injections…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/55 "2006-05-05T20:09:06Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > (2) The film isn’t actually serving its message: The shots of Evil Mankind stuff are just as beautiful as the shots of canyons and such. This statement only demonstrates that you are sick in the head. > [@](#): > > (3) The premise is that the change from natural perfection to polluted shithole has happened over time; the film suggests that it’s been an accelerated change that occurred mostly on a geologic time scale. > > The problem with this: _The film was all shot at the same time._ In other words, the unspoiled natural grandeur seen in the film, _and_ the urban shittiness seen in the film, exist contemporaneously. This does not seem, to me, to be “life out of balance.” The premise that the world is out of balance is belied by the existence of the film istelf; they had to shoot all of it somewhere. > > (4) Finally, any argument for a return to a natural, Edenic state loses much of its oomph when it’s made via the most expensive, unnatural artistic medium ever invented. Consciously or not, you make a[straw man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) fallacy with these two points. Let’s imagine that all of Earth’s natural beauty were completely destroyed. But, say, Mars remained untouched. Would that mean that Earth’s natural state had not really been destroyed? Of course not. The fact that a few parts of the Earth have not been polluted & destroyed does not mean that no parts of the Earth have been polluted & destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/56 "2006-05-05T20:58:34Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This statement only demonstrates that you are sick in the head. That’s a little strong, isn’t it? I haven’t seen the film (although I own the soundtrack), but I googled around looking for images from it, and mostly I’m seeing stills from time-lapsed shots of citiscapes, some shots of assembly lines, and one shot of a bridge being demolished. The cityscapes are quite breathtaking, the assembly line shots are technically interesting, and the bridge blowing up is frankly awesome. The nature shots are quite good, too, but I don’t see how preference for one over the other makes someone “sick in the head.” Are there other shots of, say, concentration camps or murder scenes or something that would warrant such a stinging denouncement? > [@](#): > > Consciously or not, you make a [straw man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) fallacy with these two points. That’s not a strawman. A strawman is when you create an argument that is not what your opponent is actually trying to say, and argue that instead of his actual point. Unless you’re arguing that Glass and Reggio were not trying to present a statement against anti-industrialization? Maybe they aren’t: I haven’t seen the film, like I said, but most sources agree that this was the intent of the film makers. Of course, many of the sources I looked at pointed out that the film is very ambiguous, and it is possible to take multiple, mutually exclusive interpretations away from it. I understand the film is almost totally non-narrative and non-verbal, which makes such ambiguity almost inescapable. As such, I do not know that it is possible to make a straw man argument about the films intent, when the film’s intent is not explicit within the film itself. > [@](#): > > Let’s imagine that all of Earth’s natural beauty were completely destroyed. But, say, Mars remained untouched. Would that mean that Earth’s natural state had not really been destroyed? Of course not. The fact that a few parts of the Earth have not been polluted & destroyed does not mean that no parts of the Earth have been polluted & destroyed. Now _this_ is a strawman argument, as **jackelope** never argued that no part of Earth had been polluted or destroyed. Rather, he was pointing out that parts of the Earth have been polluted, and parts are still pristine and untouched. Which, arguably, represents a kind of balance in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/57 "2006-05-05T21:25:04Z")
Um, if the film is ambiguous, then putting specific words in its makers’ mouths is ambiguous. > [@jackelope](#): > > (3) The premise is that the change from natural perfection to polluted shithole has happened over time; the film suggests that it’s been an accelerated change that occurred mostly on a geologic time scale. The film **does not say this.** Jackelope inferred it, then complained about it. Straw man. Calling something “straw man” is not about who’s right or wrong in an absolute sense. It’s about bad logic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/58 "2006-05-05T23:42:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Um, if the film is ambiguous, then putting specific words in its makers’ mouths is ambiguous. Eh? > [@](#): > > The film **does not say this.** Jackelope inferred it, then complained about it. Straw man. Calling something “straw man” is not about who’s right or wrong in an absolute sense. It’s about bad logic. In what ways is his inference incorrect? What in the film contradicts his interpretation? What do you think the film is saying? Can you prove, relying only on the film itself, that your interpretation is the only one that is appliable? It seems to me that accusing someone of making a straw man fallacy is nonsensical when the subject is as non-objective as this film. I’m still curious about your “sick in the head” comment, as well. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/59 "2006-05-06T00:06:21Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Um, if the film is ambiguous, then putting specific words in its makers’ mouths is ambiguous. The film is called “life out of balance.” That’s not ambiguous. The fact that the creator goes on to say > [@](#): > > KOYAANISQATSI is not so much about something, nor does it have a specific meaning or value. KOYAANISQATSI is, after all, an animated object, an object in moving time, the meaning of which is up to the viewer. Art has no intrinsic meaning.\ > > So in the sense of art, the meaning of KOYAANISQATSI is whatever you wish to make of it. Sounds like cop out drivel to me. Why call it “life out of balance” if it’s just art, and art has no specific meaning? The creator had a message he’s trying to send, then backs out of it by calling it “art.” What a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208/60 "2006-05-06T02:19:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The film is called “life out of balance.” That’s not ambiguous. “Life out of balance” does not necessarily mean it’s technophobic. Far from it. Shoot, even if what you take from the movie is that technology is creating lots of pain and ugliness in the world, that’s not necessarily technophobic. The movie is more subtle than that. It does show some of the beauty of technology. It sure as hell isn’t painting a black and white “tech is evil” picture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/koyaanisqatsi-a-pretentious-overrated-movie/322208.md?page=4)