# Kudos for VA! Or Why I like Gov Gilmore **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2001, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533 "2001-04-11T00:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/21 "2001-04-17T06:23:05Z")
In Washington, we pay ~$30 per year per car now, regardless of the car’s age or value. So there. 😉 Of course, now there’s hardly any transportation budget. I have no idea where they’re getting the money for the construction that’s taken over every inch of road between my house and work. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/22 "2001-04-17T12:50:09Z")
IIRC, there was a story in the Washington Post a while back regarding the car tax. An individual was leasing a high-priced sports car for a few months and got hit with a huge car tax bill on it. He refused to pay it on the grounds that it was not his personal property- he had no plans to purchase it and therefore didn’t feel it was his personal property. VA impounded it and the dealership tried to come after him for payments and the car. Not sure how it turned out. When I lived in VA for a year I was real happy that the personal property tax didn’t apply to computers cus I’da had to pay out the wazoo. ---
**Author:** ![dustMagnate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/fbc32d/32.png) [@dustMagnate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dustMagnate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/23 "2001-04-17T13:27:06Z")
The personal property tax in Virginia is one of those taxes that is being protested the loudest by those who are most able to pay it. It shouldn’t hurt that bad: what’s the matter, spend ALL your money on that new set of wheels so you can’t afford to drive it now? I am reminded of the story of someone asking about the fuel economy of one of the new Benzes. The salesman replied that if that were a concern then perhaps a less expensive make would be in order. Sales tax on food punishes the working poor. Personal property taxes on newer vehicles may inconvenience the middle class but hey: everyone needs to pay for infrastructure. Gilmore is an ass IMO, and everybody better watch out for him. He’s going to be on a national ticket soon (no cite-rumor only)and a large number of citizens will dearly hope for his swift return to Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Nixon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@Nixon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nixon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/24 "2001-04-17T15:32:45Z")
Virginia’s personal property tax goes hand in hand with its sales tax and “hidden” utility taxes as means to shift the tax burden from a progressive income tax to a regressive tax. All cars are taxed - at Blue Book value determined by state bureaucrats. The burden is hardest on the working poor - who in Virgina must drive to and from work, often in cars with a market value far below the Blue Book value. Unlike payroll taxes, the property tax is not deducted from wages but due on demand. Thus the working poor - who have generally little if any liquidity - must save to pay this annual tax, albeit at amounts most posters on this board would call “trivial”. The tax proceeds do not support any of Virginia’s transportation budget but go instead into the general fund for the state and its local governments (a legacy when this was a tax on livestock and slaves). Yes, the tax is hated most by the Beemer/Porche crowd - who like the poor and the middle class - must budget to pay this bill. They are also the ones who would cry foul loudest if the simple solution - raising income taxes - were implemented to cover the shortfall from eliminating this inane means of raising revenue. As for Gilmore - he’s a one trick pony that used the car tax elimination as a means to get elected. While he has shown integrity by insisting that the promise be kept (by reducing the budget), overall he’s an ineffective bumbler who has ignored Virginia’s issues and alienated even his GOP base. Loyal to Dumbya, look for a second tier cabinet post or mid level Ambassador appointment before he tries to replace a retiring Senator Warner. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/25 "2001-04-17T16:01:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I picked that school because it was the only one that would take me, MC, for what that’s worth. … > > - > - > - You might have to explain the Virginia way of doing things to me, toots. The way I heard it, in most US states just about any public college you can pay the tuition of will accept you. > -\*\* BWAHAHAHA! Um, whatever. Virginia schools do NOT just accept anyone. Neither do Maryland ones. In fact, I would say that at ANY state college, you have to MEET THE REQUIREMENTS first, not see if you can pay. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/26 "2001-04-18T00:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > True conservatives wish to reduce all taxes; there are none that we _love_. OK, so maybe I overstated things a bit. 🙂 Let me try again: I would expect intelligent conservatives interested in taxation issues to have some sense of which taxes were merely bad, which were genuinely abhorrent, and some reasons for distinguishing the two. (After all, even if you succeed in shrinking the cost of government by 50%, you can only get rid of 50% of the taxes. Do you cut them all by half, or are there some that really, truly have to go?) Given what I know of conservatism, I would expect that, of all taxes, the car tax would be one of the closest to the “merely bad” end of the spectrum. Sheesh. A little inaccuracy saves a world of detail. 😉 **Nixon** : > [@](#): > > It is of course, a stupid way to raise funds and keeps a large number of junk autos on the road long past their useful lives. (I myself keep a spare 91 with 162K miles on it, rather than splurge on a newer and more expensive used car.) Cite? (Besides your personal experience, that is.) Having spent the mid-'90s on the VA/TN border (IIRC, TN didn’t have a car tax), it was universally acknowledged in the area that the almost all the real junkers had TN plates. Why? VA had (and still has, IIRC) an annual car inspection, which checks the brakes, among other things. TN didn’t have a car inspection, and probably still doesn’t. FWIW, I also don’t understand how you conclude that the car tax plays an important role in making VA’s tax structure regressive; you need to make an argument there, rather than just claim it. (Pretty much _all_ of VA’s taxes are regressive, after all; the car tax would have to be pretty damned bad to make VA’s tax system noticeably more regressive with the tax than without it.) > [@](#): > > It also supports a mind numbing bureaucracy that keeps tabs on everyone’s auto - and the cars’ Blue Book value. Huh??? Think about it: **every** state, car tax or no, has a bureaucracy that keeps tabs on everyone’s auto. They send you the little stickers you put on your license plates when you send in your registration fee. As for the Blue Book values, they’re surely on disk. Match make, model and year on registration with same MM&Y on Blue Book disk to get valuation, multiply by personal property tax rate, and - poof! - the 'puter spits out a tax bill. Extra bureaucracy needed for the tax? Negligible. > [@](#): > > Think about it… my refrigerator is worth more than my spare car, yet I don’t get a tax bill for it each year, nor do I have to make sure I have sufficient liquidity come tax time. I can relate. There were times when I was paying car tax on a vehicle that was worth less than my fridge. (Just dug out my 1995 car tax bill: $9.42 on a 1982 Dodge pickup. Doesn’t include a valuation - too bad. My wife’s 1986 Accord, which was still a fine car then, and _was_ worth more than the fridge, cost us another $46.80. :)) Technically, though, it _is_ the Personal Property Tax, and in _theory_, the tax has always applied to all significant personal property. But your car is the only item of your personal property that the Commonwealth of Virginia already knows about. So in practice, the tax has applied almost exclusively to cars. But feel free to tell the VA tax people about your fridge, if it bothers you enough. I recall, from my decades as a Virginian, that there _was_ a procedure for declaring other items of personal property for purposes of the tax. Not too many people take advantage of it, but it’s your choice. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/27 "2001-04-18T05:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Falcon \* > \*\* - - - You might have to explain the Virginia way of doing things to me, toots. The way I heard it, in most US states just about any public college you can pay the tuition of will accept you. > -_\* Right. That would then be why some of my friends got rejected from public colleges. And why there are students who get suspended and kicked out of state colleges for not doing the work. Because they can pay. There are people who can pay and don’t get in. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2001, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533/28 "2001-04-18T21:08:22Z")
Just to follow up on the school thing, the combination of excellent state-sponsored schools and affordable in-state tuition makes it _very_ difficult to get accepted. Although tuition has steadily climbed during the tenure of our recent (ahem, conservative) governors, it’s still a pretty good deal, especially for folks like me who couldn’t afford to go elsewhere. For example, in 1986 the number of _eligible_ applicants to the University of Virginia from Fairfax County alone exceeded the number of available slots for UVa’s first-year class. In 1987, I sent out applications to six Virginia schools: William and Mary, UVa, Virginia Tech, James Madison, Old Dominion, and Radford. The first four stone-cold blew me off, despite SAT scores that put me in the highest percentile range. (Go Highlanders!) I had to weasel my way into VT through the back door as a sophomore–a viable opportunity because Virginia schools ruthlessly suspend and dismiss so many students for infractions or poor performance. We even used to have t-shirts that said, “Virginia Tech, the Best Five Or Six Years of Your Life,” testimony to the number of students who were put on academic suspension. **’punha** has done very well for himself in becoming a Masonite, and I fully understand his resenting the prospect of having to face yet another consecutive tuition hike as a result of this issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-for-va-or-why-i-like-gov-gilmore/61533.md?page=1)