# Kunilou's rules of conspiracies
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 13, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557 "2006-04-13T18:50:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/21 "2006-04-15T02:10:18Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Unless it’s a **really** big conspiracy. I remember a line from some novel I read once about a uber-secret group that controlled the government, and someone asked how they funded themselves. The answer: “We control the Federal Reserve, the General Accounting Office, the Treasury Department, the IRS, and the Bureau of Engraving. If we say we have thirty billion dollars, we have thirty billion dollars.”
Once it gets that big, it isn’t a conspiracy anymore. It’s the establishment. **You’re the conspiracy!**
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/22 "2006-04-15T16:32:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> Once it gets that big, it isn’t a conspiracy anymore. It’s the establishment. **You’re the conspiracy!**
Thank you! That’s a much more succint way to put it!
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/23 "2006-04-20T14:02:32Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> … **Rule #5 - Involve competent, trusted people and stay away from nutjobs**
>
> Judging by how many plots have been undone by incompetents/ nutjobs/ blabbermouths (they may have succeeded in killing Lincoln, but they never even got close to Seward or Grant)…
Actually, Secretary of State William H. Seward only narrowly survived an assassination attempt on April 14, 1865 (the same night Lincoln was shot) by Lewis Powell (AKA Lewis Payne). Powell, an associate of John Wilkes Booth, broke into Seward’s bedroom and stabbed him repeatedly. Powell also slashed several other members of the household before fleeing.
Not a bad set of conspiracy rules, though. I’m reminded of Ben Franklin’s dictum, “Two may keep a secret if one of them is dead.”
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### Author:  [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/24 "2006-04-20T17:23:48Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> **Rule #1 - Somebody always talks**
>
> Drilled into me by my late father, it’s simple human nature that someone will invariably shoot their mouth off. Whether the motive is money, revenge, making a deal with the prosecutor or simple bragging rights, somebody will talk. To minimize this, it’s important to involve as few people as possible and give each as little information as possible.
No, because somebody always talks it’s important to involve as many people as possible and give each as much information as possible. But for this to work you need at least two things; compartilization and disinformation. There’s the people at the top, the people at the bottom, and the people in the middle. You want the people at the bottom to have _more_ information so that there is little chance of them putting the pieces together. You want the people in the middle to not know who really is the “Mr. Big”. That’s why there is always a front. But there should also be a ‘false conspiracy’ something that the people at the top pretend they don’t want to be released. These ‘false conspiracies’ are known by a better name, conspiracy theories.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/25 "2006-04-20T18:43:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But there should also be a ‘false conspiracy’ something that the people at the top pretend they don’t want to be released.
One real-world example of this can be found with the Roswell incident. The objects found at Roswell were in actuality the remains of a U. S. government experiement to attempt to detect nuclear explosions elsewhere in the world. For various reasons related to national security, the government very reasonably did not want the details of this experiment to be known. So they deliberately encouraged the alien spacecraft explanation, to divert people away from the true purpose. And it worked: Plenty of people know (correctly) that there was a government conspiracy involved in the Roswell incident. Even today, though, few know correctly what that conspiracy actually was.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/26 "2006-04-22T00:00:43Z")
**Chronos** that seems a somewhat- uh, bald assertion. Like to provide some cites to back that up?
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/27 "2006-04-22T02:52:07Z")
[http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html](http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html)
Strongly supported by evidence at this point. Which explains some of the weirdness.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/28 "2006-04-22T03:40:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#):
>
> [http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html](http://www.csicop.org/si/9507/roswell.html)
>
> Strongly supported by evidence at this point. Which explains some of the weirdness.
What I take away from this is that the U.S. government was experimenting with balloons to detect nuclear explosions.
When a balloon crashed and debris were found, the government claimed they were “weather balloons.”
No claims of aliens, no assertions that the debris were part of an experiment to harness atmospheric energy and turn it into some sort of superweapon, no secret autopsies.
In other words, a straightforward cover story using a common object to conceal a classified one. Just like when people in the Manhattan Project had to refer to uranium in documents, they called it “copper.”
**Rules #2 and #4** folks. The pieces fit together and the misdirection is just enough to hide the real story.
And lest we forget
> [@the cite](#):
>
> Recently, Charles B. Moore, one of three surviving Project Mogul scientists identified in and interviewed for the Air Force report, spoke to the New Mexicans for Science and Reason (NMSR) in Albuquerque. He discussed the background of the project, the New York University (NYU) balloon flights, and the Roswell connection. He provided new details that would appear to virtually clinch the idea that the debris Brazel found was indeed from one of the Project Mogul flights that Moore helped launch.
Somebody talked.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/29 "2006-04-22T12:09:58Z")
Note: Somebody talked 40+ years later, after it was declassified.
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### Author:  [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/30 "2006-04-22T12:58:31Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> In other words, a straightforward cover story using a common object to conceal a classified one. Just like when people in the Manhattan Project had to refer to uranium in documents, they called it “copper.”
I was there in early '44. Never heard of it being called “copper.” Uranium was referred to as green salt, sometimes as “Tuballoy” (tube alloy) and other appelations.
When asked what we were making, one answer was “sea green paint” to coat ‘windows’ of enemy sub periscopes when they would break water. So then the capt. would order the sub upward to where the ack ack guns could shoot then down!
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/31 "2006-04-22T13:40:22Z")
Dude. You…
Tell us a story, unca Spingears! Was Feynman as cool as he comes off in his books, or was he a bit of a dick? What did the ‘computers’ think of the whole project? What was it like being stuffed to East Hicksville, NM and ordered not to talk to people? Did anyone go off the reservation?
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/32 "2006-04-22T14:01:24Z")
Somebody always talks?
Three can keep a secret _if_ two are dead.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 23, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/33 "2006-04-23T02:02:23Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#):
>
> Note: Somebody talked 40+ years later, after it was declassified.
Yeah, but it’s been _centuries_ and we still can’t crack the Illuminati or the Masons. 😉
**spingears** Not only do I retract in light of your first-hand experience, I second **E-Sabbath’s** request. Tell some stories, please.
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### Author:  [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/34 "2006-04-25T12:55:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#):
>
> Dude. You…
> Tell us a story, unca Spingears! Was Feynman as cool as he comes off in his books, or was he a bit of a dick? What did the ‘computers’ think of the whole project? What was it like being stuffed to East Hicksville, NM and ordered not to talk to people? Did anyone go off the reservation?
-No comment re: Feynmam, didn’t know him. Did know one big self important scientist, who was an excellent scientist, BUT was the soutbound end of a north bound horse in his dealings with anyone not a well known scientist, in his estimation. He had no use at all for engineers.
I was at a 'different site where we could come and go on rare occassions. Work rotating shifts of seven consecutive days starting at 3:00 PM on Mon. Tues. off, work 7 day shifts, Wed, off. 7 night shifts, Thurs. off. And so it goes till you get off night shift at 7:00 AM on Friday, have the rest of the day to sleep, rest up, or ride a bus 150 t0 300 miles to get home late Friday night or by noon on Sat. Sun. noon it’s back on a bus to get back to go to work at 3:00 PM on Mon.
The standrd answer to questions about what we were doing was "I don’t know, I just ‘do’ what I am told.
Computers?? What computers? The biggest and best anyone had was a 20" “K & E Log Log Duplex Trig. or Decitrig Slide Rule.”
Offices had “Comptometers” for adding/subtracting acconting purposes.
Or did you mean the persons doing the computing? They used abacuses! 😃
Sometime ask about high vacuum, silver wiring, cubicles & operators, silver soldering, etc. etc.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/35 "2006-04-25T16:40:30Z")
> [@spingears](#):
>
> -No comment re: Feynmam, didn’t know him. Did know one big self important scientist, who was an excellent scientist, BUT was the soutbound end of a north bound horse in his dealings with anyone not a well known scientist, in his estimation. He had no use at all for engineers.
>
> I was at a 'different site where we could come and go on rare occassions. Work rotating shifts of seven consecutive days starting at 3:00 PM on Mon. Tues. off, work 7 day shifts, Wed, off. 7 night shifts, Thurs. off. And so it goes till you get off night shift at 7:00 AM on Friday, have the rest of the day to sleep, rest up, or ride a bus 150 t0 300 miles to get home late Friday night or by noon on Sat. Sun. noon it’s back on a bus to get back to go to work at 3:00 PM on Mon.
>
> The standrd answer to questions about what we were doing was "I don’t know, I just ‘do’ what I am told.
>
> Computers?? What computers? The biggest and best anyone had was a 20" “K & E Log Log Duplex Trig. or Decitrig Slide Rule.”
> Offices had “Comptometers” for adding/subtracting acconting purposes.
>
> Or did you mean the persons doing the computing? They used abacuses! 😃
>
> Sometime ask about high vacuum, silver wiring, cubicles & operators, silver soldering, etc. etc.
RE: the “silver wiring”: no doubt this was the "calutron’ machine for enriching/separating the uranium isotopes. i heard that it never worked properly-and the silver wiring was used because copper was too scarce. Anyway, what became of the calutron?
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### Author:  [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/36 "2006-04-25T17:24:06Z")
;j 😃 I have frequently read or heard the rantings of anti-semitic bigots who tell me that Jews run the whole world and have a super-developed conspiracy that controls everything and everybody. Since my name is French, most of these people do not realize that I have Jewish relatives in my family.
But let us assume for a second that such an all-powerful hidden Jewish world government could and does exist. Surely they would want to keep the rest of us from knowing the truth? Surely they would want to quickly and efficiently silence anyone who becomes wise to their conspiracy before they alert the rest of us?
So how is it that neo-Nazis and other people warning us about the alleged conspiracy are not simply and quickly made to disappear? Surely a world-wide invisible and all-powerful Zionist government that controls all media and all local governments could arrange for these people to just die in an “accident” that is never reported in their controlled media? Surely they could make their books and pamphlets disappear or or never be published in the first place?
How is it that I can access web sites by these groups detailing all the alleged “evidence” for this world-wide Zionist conspiracy? Did this super-powerful hidden government forget to control the web???
When I meet one of these people, what I tell them is: "What about the Dutch monopoly on the moving industry? The entire Van Lines family (Mayflower, Allied, etc.) has a strangle-hold on the moving industry from coast to coast.! 😃
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### Author:  [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/37 "2006-04-25T18:36:01Z")
> [@Valteron](#):
>
> ;j So how is it that neo-Nazis and other people warning us about the alleged conspiracy are not simply and quickly made to disappear? 😃
You’re forgetting just how subtle and clever The Conspiracy is. These guys are allowed and even encouraged to indulge themselves in all sorts of crazy shouting and then relegated to the lunatic fringe where they taint conspiracy theory with the smell of irrational fanaticism. They are even given funding through indirect channels, but only those who are obviously irrational and/or criminal receive this kind of backing. The news media are then manipulated to give them only marginal and unfavorable coverage. This discourages the rest of the sheep from taking an interest in conspiracy theory for fear of being associated with such riff-raff. It is quite astounding how clever we–uh, _they_ are really are.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunilous-rules-of-conspiracies/352557/38 "2006-04-25T21:51:03Z")
> [@spingears](#):
>
> Or did you mean the persons doing the computing? They used abacuses! 😃
I did. I’ve often been curious about what the massed people who computed thought they were doing, and so on.
Seriously, nobody speculated at all?
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