# kunoichi, I don't give a rat's rear about your false civility! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664 "2003-05-27T00:17:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/1 "2003-05-27T00:17:53Z")
In a general questions thread, you posted bullshit. I called you on that bullshit. Your amazingly ignorant response was this (I went ahead and divvied it up so I could address your crap “point” by “point”): > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Provide proof of this assertion. Failing that, retract it. > > First person accounts. Not written down anywhere, for all I know it was unofficial. In other words: You have no proof. You do not know. > [@](#): > > I just know that the Chinese had no reason to keep my grandfather alive AND captive unless they were getting rewarded, so I’m going to take his word on this one. Well, there’s the whole concept of the Chinese might have had a reason to keep a fellow human being alive. So, your granddaddy’s word is bullshit. > [@](#): > > Also, the Nationalists and the Communists would shoot each other and take extra care to not harm the American captives. Sure, they could have been just being nice, but it was ten times easier to turn them over to the Japanese to be tortured and killed. I asked for proof. Not more assertions without evidence. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > A racial slur has only a demeaning sense. A racial slur does not have a good sense, nor do those who use such racial slurs. > > And the term “bigot” has a good sense? Nowhere did I mention that the word “bigot” has a good sense. For those of us unimpeded by a stunning lack of brains, I clearly indicated that the word “bigot” was used in the linked thread in the sense that it’s used in polite society. Racials slurs aren’t considered polite. > [@](#): > > From what I’ve seen, bigot is only thrown around to demean people whose opinions differ from the politically correct left. Then you really can’t tell much, can you? I used the term “bigot” in a descriptive manner: to describe someone who uses a particular racial slur. > [@](#): > > My point is a word is just a word. If you want to get offended at words, that’s your personal problem. One example of my point is when you learn a foreign language (if you’re truly open-minded you should…), you obviously don’t know all of the history behind certain expressions. So as a fledgling user of a language, you may mislearn or mistakenly use a word that may be offensive to the other culture. This useage can hardly be called deliberately demeaning. I’m using this as an analogy to someone who is brought up in a segment of American culture that uses a word to refer to those “different” people. Without knowing or thinking much about the history of the useage of a word, you start to use it indiscriminately and not think about or mean it to be demeaning or offensive. Care to make a relevant comment or are you enjoying yourself being obtuse? When I learned a foreign langauge (which I’ve done, being into Linguistics), one of the things taught is which words not to use in polite society. > [@](#): > > I will admit that my grandfather is uneducated and ignorant, but bigoted? no. Again, I don’t give rat’s rear if you admit it or not. The dude’s tossing around an offensive racial slur (according to you). That makes him a bigot, even if it’s only a teensy-bit bigoted. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Not everyone called them that at the time. Or do you believe the Nissei who fought for their country (you know, the United States) went around referring to the Japanese by a racial slur? Do you think German-Americans went around referring to the Germans by a racial slur? Or that Italian-Americans went around referring to the Italians by a racial slur? > > Sure they did, maybe not all but at least some of them did. My other grandfather fought in Europe. Very German-American. But he still called the Nazis Krauts. Grand. Now you got two bigoted grandparents. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh, getting back to my “tell it like it is to the clueless” approach: I hope you took notes. I just used that same approach for your benefit. > > For this approach to work, you must first establish that the person you are talking to is clueless. I didn’t have to establish that fact. You did that quite well by your lonesome. > [@](#): > > I am not, so obviously you just failed. Actually, you are and I didn’t. > [@](#): > > I’m trying to maintain civility here. BULLSHIT! > [@](#): > > I’m just expressing my opinions and some counter-examples to the demeaning useage of ethnic slurs. You’re trying to incite a fight by calling my relatives bigots. If you really want to start fights, take it to the pit. I’m not going to throw insults back and forth here. ‘Tain’t my fault the picture you paint of dear ol’ gramps is that of a bigot. > [@](#): > > Doozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu. I’m still not interested in your false civility. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/2 "2003-05-27T00:20:41Z")
Link? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/3 "2003-05-27T00:29:58Z")
Whoops. [Why is ‘Jap’ demeaning and ‘Brit’ is not?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186290&pagenumber=1) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/4 "2003-05-27T00:40:37Z")
Thanx. Having read the thread in question, I can say to **Kunoichi** , “Anata wa baka desu yo!” Well done, **Monty**. ---
**Author:** ![Ego\_Mk2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Ego\_Mk2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ego_Mk2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/5 "2003-05-27T01:05:36Z")
If someone I knew was held captive in some country other than the one he was from I doubt I’d hold it against him if he came out of it Majorly prejudiced towards that particular nationality and\or ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/6 "2003-05-27T02:25:00Z")
gobear: No way in heck I’d use “anata” to address kunoichi. Ego: The POWs I know don’t hold that experience against an entire ethnic group. But then I don’t hang out with too many bigots. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/7 "2003-05-27T03:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*gobear: No way in heck I’d use “anata” to address kunoichi. > \*\* I might recommend: _Omae, do-ahô ya de!_ ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/8 "2003-05-27T03:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ego\_Mk2 \* > \*\*If someone I knew was held captive in some country other than the one he was from I doubt I’d hold it against him if he came out of it Majorly prejudiced towards that particular nationality and\or ethnic group. \*\* There’s a difference between hating the actual motherfuckers who held you captive and hating eveyr single person in that nation or ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Ego\_Mk2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Ego\_Mk2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ego_Mk2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/9 "2003-05-27T04:14:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*There’s a difference between hating the actual motherfuckers who held you captive and hating eveyr single person in that nation or ethnic group. \*\* So you’re saying that a 79 year old man who was tortured on a daily basis for three to ten years by, let’s say, Soviet Russians, has no valid reason to say and think things like “Godless Communist Mother Fuckers!”? Now imagine car battery terminals being attached to your teeth, tongue, and genitals. You can’t. It happens, and has happened to many a POW. Now SHUT THE FUCK UP! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/10 "2003-05-27T05:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ego\_Mk2 \* > \*\*So you’re saying that a 79 year old man who was tortured on a daily basis for three to ten years by, let’s say, Soviet Russians, has no valid reason to say and think things like “Godless Communist Mother Fuckers!”? > > Now imagine car battery terminals being attached to your teeth, tongue, and genitals. You can’t. It happens, and has happened to many a POW. > > Now SHUT THE FUCK UP! \*\* No. He has a perfectly valid reason to say such things about his actual tormentors, but to say such things against all Russians is invalid and predjudicial. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/11 "2003-05-27T05:10:06Z")
What Q.E.D, you mean every single Russian during and since aren’t guilty of torture? What is this insanity you speak of? Why stop at POWs? If irrational bigotry and prejudice is _rational_ due to past wrongs, I think every single black person in America should hate every single white person in America, because of the centuries of slavery, racism, murder, segregation, torture, prejudice, and oppression–regardless of whether or not they were guilty (or even born) during this time! And Ego? Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/12 "2003-05-27T05:14:29Z")
**Ego\_Mk2** , you’re trying to convince people that suffering injustice is a valid ethical reason for acting unethically. While in some cases it is a powerful emotional argument, it is not a logical one, nor one that we would do well to live by. It is foolish, and makes you look like an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/13 "2003-05-27T07:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ego\_Mk2 \* > \*\* Now SHUT THE FUCK UP! \*\* C’mon man, we can be better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/14 "2003-05-27T10:30:30Z")
I’d be much more sympathetic towards a former torture victim if he were inclined to indescriminately bash all persons of the race/religion/ethnicity/whatever of his former captors. Obviously, the better course would be for him to recognize the distinction between his torturers and the whole group they happen to belong to. And I certainly wouldn’t say “He has the right” or that he was right for his attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/15 "2003-05-27T12:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ego\_Mk2 \* > So you’re saying that a 79 year old man who was tortured on a daily basis for three to ten years by, let’s say, Soviet Russians, has no valid reason to say and think things like “Godless Communist Mother Fuckers!”? That’s correct if he’s applying that term to all of the “Godless Communists” of the USSR instead of merely to those who actually did torture him. He also has no valid reason to ascribe the reason for the torture done to him merely to the “Godless Communist’s” race. > [@](#): > > Now imagine car battery terminals being attached to your teeth, tongue, and genitals. You can’t. I am not bereft of imagination; therefore, I can imagine such a thing happening. > [@](#): > > It happens, and has happened to many a POW. And how many times was this caused by the race of the person inflicting the torture? > [@](#): > > Now SHUT THE FUCK UP! If you don’t want to listen to reason, you don’t have to. I am curious, though…is it that you are unwilling or incapable of processing reason? ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/16 "2003-05-27T12:53:45Z")
God, **Monty** , your constant screaming about ‘bigotry’ REALLY GETS ON MY NERVES. Your _monumental_ arrogance in presuming to judge what did or didn’t happen in the far East in WW2, or what the survivors of that terrible war are free to say or not to say now, frankly astounds me. I’d love you to try your sorry little pc stunts on some of the people who were actually in that fight. I’d bet everything I own that, to a man, if they were 40 years younger they’d pound your sorry arse into the ground. With me egging them on, I might add. And if, say, this was a Japanese message board, and all the arguments were reversed, and you were there bleating pointlessly in your customary pathetic pretension to moral superiority, about what you can or cannot call the British, well let it be known that the Japanese could call me whatever the hell they liked. No skin off my nose, cos I’d have the requisite two brain cell minimum to realise and appreciate that the anger and the words were directed at my ancestors, not at me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/17 "2003-05-27T14:43:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reuben \* > God, **Monty** , your constant screaming about ‘bigotry’ REALLY GETS ON MY NERVES. Tought noogies. > [@](#): > > Your _monumental_ arrogance in presuming to judge what did or didn’t happen in the far East in WW2, or what the survivors of that terrible war are free to say or not to say now, frankly astounds me. Maybe it’s your utter illiteracy that is the cause of your nerves being out of sorts. After all, I did not judge what happened to anyone. > [@](#): > > I’d love you to try your sorry little pc stunts on some of the people who were actually in that fight. I’d bet everything I own that, to a man, if they were 40 years younger they’d pound your sorry arse into the ground. With me egging them on, I might add. Then, you are the one who is monumentally arrogant. > [@](#): > > And if, say, this was a Japanese message board, and all the arguments were reversed, and you were there bleating pointlessly in your customary pathetic pretension to moral superiority, about what you can or cannot call the British, well let it be known that the Japanese could call me whatever the hell they liked. Further proof that you cannot actually process the written word. I said nothing about the term “Brit” being a racial slur. > [@](#): > > No skin off my nose, cos I’d have the requisite two brain cell minimum to realise and appreciate that the anger and the words were directed at my ancestors, not at me. Ah, grand. Yet another person who rationalizes away bigotry. Oddly enough, it appears that your two brain cells do not work in tandem. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/18 "2003-05-27T14:44:41Z")
“Tought” above should, of course, read “Tough.” I guess it doesn’t really matter all that much, what with Reuben being functionally illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/19 "2003-05-27T15:10:44Z")
Quoth Reuben: You’re wrong because someone can kick your ass. Wow. What’s the name of that one? _Argumentam ad asswhoopitude_? ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664/20 "2003-05-27T16:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Your monumental arrogance in presuming to judge what did or didn’t happen in the far East in WW2, or what the survivors of that terrible war are free to say or not to say now, frankly astounds me. We had survivors in my family,\*\* Reuben\*\*, and I’ve listened to their stories. My grandfather, grandmother, and mother were interned in a Japanese prisoner of war camp in Tientsin, China during WWII. Although, as civilians, they did not experience the atrocities that captured British and American soldiers did, I can safely say that it was a horrible experience for them. However, they did not hold the entire Japanese race culpable and had no animosity the individual Japanese that they came into contact with after the war. They also did not use the word “Jap” after the war as they considered it vulgar. > [@](#): > > I just know that the Chinese had no reason to keep my grandfather alive AND captive unless they were getting rewarded, so I’m going to take his word on this one. Actually, my grandparent’s Chinese servants risked their lives on a weekly basis smuggling eggs, rice, and chicken to them. My grandparents were penniless. The servants did it simply out of humanity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kunoichi-i-dont-give-a-rats-rear-about-your-false-civility/177664.md?page=2)